Discussion:
Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment
(too old to reply)
Richard Owlett
2020-06-28 13:30:01 UTC
Permalink
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.

Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]

I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted

On reboot the desktop did not appear.

What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?

TIA
Patrick Bartek
2020-06-28 13:40:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
TIA
Did you install the X server and its depends? Did you manually run
startx? I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.

B
Richard Owlett
2020-06-28 14:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Bartek
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
TIA
Did you install the X server and its depends?
No, I had assumed that was a depends. OOOPS ;/
Post by Patrick Bartek
Did you manually run startx?
No ;}
Post by Patrick Bartek
I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.
That's what happens. I had expected booting would yield the MATE desktop.


I did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install xorg
startx

That yielded a MATE desktop with a minimalist's dream menu <grin>

It does not yet boot to the MATE desktop automatically.
I've not yet investigated xorg's recommends.
I am reading https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg .
[Think I've found a typo, but need to follow the internal links to be sure.]

*Thank you*

This septuagenarian does some things the hard way to gain education ;}
Post by Patrick Bartek
B
echo test
2020-06-28 14:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment

$> systemctl set-default graphical.target

If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.

Hope this helps.
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by Patrick Bartek
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 08:21:29 -0500
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at
boot?
Post by Patrick Bartek
Post by Richard Owlett
TIA
Did you install the X server and its depends?
No, I had assumed that was a depends. OOOPS ;/
Post by Patrick Bartek
Did you manually run startx?
No ;}
Post by Patrick Bartek
I assume you boot to a terminal and log-in there.
That's what happens. I had expected booting would yield the MATE desktop.
I did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install xorg
startx
That yielded a MATE desktop with a minimalist's dream menu <grin>
It does not yet boot to the MATE desktop automatically.
I've not yet investigated xorg's recommends.
I am reading https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg .
[Think I've found a typo, but need to follow the internal links to be sure.]
*Thank you*
This septuagenarian does some things the hard way to gain education ;}
Post by Patrick Bartek
B
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 12:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching for
"update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and each
covered only one instance.

I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.

TIA
t***@tuxteam.de
2020-06-29 12:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
topics upstream.

It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
for vi.

It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
wiki.

It's a Debian-specific thing.

What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
without complaining ;-)

Cheers

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
-- t
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 14:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
topics upstream.
It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
for vi.
It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
wiki.
It's a Debian-specific thing.
What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
without complaining ;-)
Cheers
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will
be valuable.

There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
$VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket \'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at ../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. ';
This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
This site is going to go read-only
Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
Tags: meta, site news
This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.
I believe a good link would be
[
https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/
]

Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the
topic to be comfortable doing it.
Brian
2020-06-29 14:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
topics upstream.
It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
for vi.
It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
wiki.
It's a Debian-specific thing.
What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
without complaining ;-)
Cheers
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will be
valuable.
There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
$VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket
\'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at
../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. ';
This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
This site is going to go read-only
Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
Tags: meta, site news
This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.
I believe a good link would be
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/
]
Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the topic to
be comfortable doing it.
Mended with

https://debian-administration.org/article/91/Using_the_Debian_alternatives_system
--
Brian.
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 15:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
FWIW, update-alternatives isn't (directly) related to the other
topics upstream.
It's intended to manage groups of workalike "applications", for example
bash, dash, etc. as alternatives to sh, or vim, elvis as alternatives
for vi.
It does so by juggling symlinks somewhere in /etc/alternatives. It's
smart enough to also juggle the relevant man pages, so that if you,
e.g. use "vim" for "vi", "man vi" will show you the vim man page.
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
See "man update-alternatives", or this entry [1] in the Debian
wiki.
It's a Debian-specific thing.
What alternatives does for you? Mostly it does its job silently,
without complaining ;-)
Cheers
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives
That is the type of page I was looking for. I think the links there will be
valuable.
There is a "broken link" under "See Also"
Post by t***@tuxteam.de
$VAR1 = \'Can\'t connect to local MySQL server through socket
\'/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock\' (111 "Connection refused") at
../lib/Singleton/DBI.pm line 95. ';
This site is now 100% read-only, and retired.
This site is going to go read-only
Posted by Steve on Sun 10 Sep 2017 at 07:02
Tags: meta, site news
This site was born in late September 2004, and has now reached 13 years of age
and that seems to be a fitting time to stop.
I believe a good link would be
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20140406045047/http://www.debian-administration.org/article/91/
]
Even though anyone can modify a wiki, I don't know enough about the topic to
be comfortable doing it.
Mended with
https://debian-administration.org/article/91/Using_the_Debian_alternatives_system
Bookmarked
davidson
2020-06-29 14:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically
check that systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx,
check also that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8)
or you can add the startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?".
Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?

If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
post:

lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1e117e50-2f61-a487-9663-***@cloud85.net
To: debian-user
Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
From: Richard Owlett
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018
Post by Richard Owlett
IOW the manpage gives fine details but no sense of perspective.
I find this claim puzzling. Possibly we are reading different documents?

$ man update-alternatives # (in section 1, on my system, not 8)

update-alternatives(1) dpkg suite update-alternatives(1)
[...]
DESCRIPTION

update-alternatives creates, removes, maintains and displays
information about the symbolic links comprising the Debian
alternatives system.

It is possible for several programs fulfilling the same or similar
functions to be installed on a single system at the same time. For
example, many systems have several text editors installed at once.
This gives choice to the users of a system, allowing each to use a
different editor, if desired, but makes it difficult for a program
to make a good choice for an editor to invoke if the user has not
specified a particular preference.

Debian's alternatives system aims to solve this problem. A generic
name in the filesystem is shared by all files providing
interchangeable functionality. The alternatives system and the
system administrator together determine which actual file is
referenced by this generic name. For example, if the text editors
ed(1) and nvi(1) are both installed on the system, the alternatives
system will cause the generic name /usr/bin/editor to refer to
/usr/bin/nvi by default. The system administrator can override this
and cause it to refer to /usr/bin/ed instead, and the alternatives
system will not alter this setting until explicitly requested to do
so.

[...]

For a general overview, I would be hard pressed to improve on the
second and third paragraph above.
--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe. The frost giant turns to flee.
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 15:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by davidson
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically
check that systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
  $> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx,
check also that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8)
or you can add the startx command in /etc/profile.
That manpage was intriguing, if not educational. I went searching
for "update-alternatives tutorials". They all referenced Ubuntu and
each covered only one instance.
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?".
Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?
Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment
rather than task-mate-desktop ;{
Post by davidson
If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
 To: debian-user
 Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
 From: Richard Owlett
 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018
That problem and this week's problems are only loosely related.
I consider the Debian installer has a design flaw in that it does not
allow me to install _*ONLY*_ packages required by an explicit depends -
it insists on installing some undesirable "recommended" packages.
I've abandoned that fight for the time being.
Post by davidson
[snip]
For a general overview, I would be hard pressed to improve on the
second and third paragraph above.
I was pointed to [ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianAlternatives ] which,
especially with its internal links, spoke to me.

Thanks
Brian
2020-06-29 17:10:02 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by davidson
Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?
Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment rather
than task-mate-desktop ;{
Post by davidson
If so inclined, you could review the thread which begins with this
 To: debian-user
 Subject: Configuring WebHTTrack as I WANT
 From: Richard Owlett
 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018
That problem and this week's problems are only loosely related.
I consider the Debian installer has a design flaw in that it does not allow
me to install _*ONLY*_ packages required by an explicit depends - it insists
on installing some undesirable "recommended" packages.
I've abandoned that fight for the time being.
If you ever take it up again, a wishlist bug against tasksel would be
the way to go. Perhaps ask for a preseed option turning off Recommends:?
--
Brian.
Liam O'Toole
2020-06-29 17:50:01 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by davidson
Have you reviewed any notes regarding what it did for you yesterday?
Yesterday's problems stemmed from installing mate-desktop-environment rather
than task-mate-desktop ;{
Whoosh. davidson is reminding you that she has already explained
update-alternatives to you.
David
2020-06-30 00:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
Have a read of this page [1] about half-way down under the heading:
"DEBIAN SPECIFICITY Alternatives"

Actually, read the whole page, it also mentions display managers and
menu systems that you have been asking about recently.

Actually, read the whole chapter [2], it covers X and the graphical
desktop environment.

Actually, read the whole book [3].

Some of it you will already know, but it gives a great overview of
Debian administration. So it's not a specific topic to just bookmark
and forget about, it's worthwhile to actually read the whole thing,
skimming whatever is not relevant to you.

It is easy to read, has a considerable coverage, and is partially
example-based [4], a documentation style that you often request.

[1] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.customizing-graphical-interface.html
[2] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/workstation.html
[3] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/index.html
[4] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/case-study.html
Richard Owlett
2020-06-30 10:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by Richard Owlett
I'm looking for something that aims to answer "What can
update-alternatives do for me today?". IOW the manpage gives fine
details but no sense of perspective.
"DEBIAN SPECIFICITY Alternatives"
Actually, read the whole page, it also mentions display managers and
menu systems that you have been asking about recently.
Actually, read the whole chapter [2], it covers X and the graphical
desktop environment.
Actually, read the whole book [3].
Some of it you will already know, but it gives a great overview of
Debian administration. So it's not a specific topic to just bookmark
and forget about, it's worthwhile to actually read the whole thing,
skimming whatever is not relevant to you.
It is easy to read, has a considerable coverage, and is partially
example-based [4], a documentation style that you often request.
[1] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.customizing-graphical-interface.html
[2] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/workstation.html
[3] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/index.html
[4] https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/case-study.html
Your crystal ball is working fine. An hour ago, during breakfast, I
answered an email from a friend. I may have placed myself in a situation
parallel to [4].

I have read portions of _The Debian Administrator's Handbook_.
The last read was a couple of years ago. I forgotten the book existed.
I downloaded the ebook. I'll be reading it with the benefit of ~8 years
experience I didn't have when I first saw it. Thank you.

P.S. I date back to when CPU's used 12AX7's etc.
Greg Wooledge
2020-06-29 12:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
Do not put startx in /etc/profile.

There are many different ways to run X. One of them is to login on a
console, and run the startx command, either manually, or from your
*personal* (NOT system-wide) ~/.profile. Typically you would surround
this call with some code that verifies you really are on a Linux console
(e.g. check whether $(tty) matches /dev/tty*) so that it doesn't fire
when you ssh in.

Another is to install a Display Manager, such as lightdm, sddm, gdm3,
xdm, etc. There are roughly a dozen of 'em. This is what the Desktop
Environment metapackages do.

Another is to set up "autologin", in such a way that an X session running
as some specific user is launched as soon as you boot. This is the
common choice for "kiosk" machines.

Once you've chosen how you want to proceed, you can investigate the
details of that particular approach. With a DM, there really isn't much
you need to know, beyond "what do I click to control the type of session".
With startx, you might choose to write a custom ~/.xsession script to
control your session startup. I've never done autologin, so I can't say
a lot about it, but I do know that the details of setting it up will
depend on which init system you use.
t***@tuxteam.de
2020-06-29 12:40:02 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:32:58AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

[...]
Post by Greg Wooledge
Do not put startx in /etc/profile.
Seconded. Thanks for spotting that.

Cheers
-- t
Jude DaShiell
2020-09-12 23:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 08:32:58
Subject: Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment
Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 12:33:17 +0000 (UTC)
Post by echo test
Hello,
If you want the desktop environment to be started automatically check that
systemd is configured to run in graphical environment
$> systemctl set-default graphical.target
If this is already setup, and you can launch your DE with startx, check also
that mate is the default DE with update-alternatives(8) or you can add the
startx command in /etc/profile.
Do not put startx in /etc/profile.
There are many different ways to run X. One of them is to login on a
console, and run the startx command, either manually, or from your
*personal* (NOT system-wide) ~/.profile. Typically you would surround
this call with some code that verifies you really are on a Linux console
(e.g. check whether $(tty) matches /dev/tty*) so that it doesn't fire
when you ssh in.
Another is to install a Display Manager, such as lightdm, sddm, gdm3,
xdm, etc. There are roughly a dozen of 'em. This is what the Desktop
Environment metapackages do.
Another is to set up "autologin", in such a way that an X session running
as some specific user is launched as soon as you boot. This is the
common choice for "kiosk" machines.
Once you've chosen how you want to proceed, you can investigate the
details of that particular approach. With a DM, there really isn't much
you need to know, beyond "what do I click to control the type of session".
With startx, you might choose to write a custom ~/.xsession script to
control your session startup. I've never done autologin, so I can't say
a lot about it, but I do know that the details of setting it up will
depend on which init system you use.
Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?
--
Greg Wooledge
2020-09-14 12:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude DaShiell
Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Targets

There isn't a "text.target" as far as I'm aware. multi-user.target
will skip the DM if one is installed. graphical.target is the
default in Debian, and runs the DM if one is installed, or skips it
if none is installed.
Kenneth Parker
2020-09-14 14:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by Jude DaShiell
Would sysctl set-default text.target display the dm on startup?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Targets
There isn't a "text.target" as far as I'm aware. multi-user.target
will skip the DM if one is installed. graphical.target is the
default in Debian, and runs the DM if one is installed, or skips it
if none is installed.
+1

I use "systemctl set-default multi-user.target" on all my systems (with
SystemD), and then issue "systemctl start graphical.target" when I am
satisfied. (I prefer to do the "apt-get dance" in Text Mode).

Kenneth Parker
David Wright
2020-06-28 15:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
You appear to want to install MATE manually without Recommends, rather
than within the d-i and with Recommends. In that case, you should
install task-mate-desktop, not just mate-desktop-environment:

Package: task-mate-desktop
Depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, mate-desktop-environment, lightdm
Recommends: gimp, synaptic, libreoffice, libreoffice-help-en-us, mythes-en-us, hunspell-en-us, hyphen-en-us, network-manager-gnome, orca, libreoffice-gtk3
Description: MATE
This task package is used to install the Debian desktop, featuring
the MATE desktop environment, and with other packages that Debian users
expect to have available on the desktop.

Cheers,
David.
Richard Owlett
2020-06-28 16:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
You appear to want to install MATE manually without Recommends, rather
than within the d-i and with Recommends.
Yes.
Post by David Wright
In that case, you should
Package: task-mate-desktop
Depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, mate-desktop-environment, lightdm
Recommends: gimp, synaptic, libreoffice, libreoffice-help-en-us, mythes-en-us, hunspell-en-us, hyphen-en-us, network-manager-gnome, orca, libreoffice-gtk3
Description: MATE
This task package is used to install the Debian desktop, featuring
the MATE desktop environment, and with other packages that Debian users
expect to have available on the desktop.
Just tried that. Now the boot process does NOT complete.
It may have collided with other things I have tried.
I'll redo all from scratch to to eliminate that possibility.
This time I'll create a log file.
I'm not sure If I'll get back to it until tomorrow.
Thanks.
Brian
2020-06-28 20:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by David Wright
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
You appear to want to install MATE manually without Recommends, rather
than within the d-i and with Recommends.
Yes.
Post by David Wright
In that case, you should
Package: task-mate-desktop
Depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, mate-desktop-environment, lightdm
Recommends: gimp, synaptic, libreoffice, libreoffice-help-en-us, mythes-en-us, hunspell-en-us, hyphen-en-us, network-manager-gnome, orca, libreoffice-gtk3
Description: MATE
This task package is used to install the Debian desktop, featuring
the MATE desktop environment, and with other packages that Debian users
expect to have available on the desktop.
Just tried that. Now the boot process does NOT complete.
It may have collided with other things I have tried.
I'll redo all from scratch to to eliminate that possibility.
This time I'll create a log file.
I'm not sure If I'll get back to it until tomorrow.
Thanks.
All good stuff. All very interesting. All very resolvable when a user
has a clue what he is doing. We have gone from unable to boot the MATE
desktop to not being able to boot at all! Carry on installing. :)

Debian installs Recommends: by default. Your issue demonstrates exactly
why it was made so.
--
Brian.
Jude DaShiell
2020-06-28 20:50:02 UTC
Permalink
If I run a gui, I prefer to be logged in before that gui starts up.
Probably systemctl disable lightdm as root then editing startx such that
the last line runs mate gets something like this done.
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 15:53:59
Subject: Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment
Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 19:54:15 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by David Wright
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
You appear to want to install MATE manually without Recommends, rather
than within the d-i and with Recommends.
Yes.
Post by David Wright
In that case, you should
Package: task-mate-desktop
Depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, mate-desktop-environment, lightdm
Recommends: gimp, synaptic, libreoffice, libreoffice-help-en-us, mythes-en-us, hunspell-en-us, hyphen-en-us, network-manager-gnome, orca, libreoffice-gtk3
Description: MATE
This task package is used to install the Debian desktop, featuring
the MATE desktop environment, and with other packages that Debian users
expect to have available on the desktop.
Just tried that. Now the boot process does NOT complete.
It may have collided with other things I have tried.
I'll redo all from scratch to to eliminate that possibility.
This time I'll create a log file.
I'm not sure If I'll get back to it until tomorrow.
Thanks.
All good stuff. All very interesting. All very resolvable when a user
has a clue what he is doing. We have gone from unable to boot the MATE
desktop to not being able to boot at all! Carry on installing. :)
Debian installs Recommends: by default. Your issue demonstrates exactly
why it was made so.
--
Greg Wooledge
2020-06-29 12:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jude DaShiell
If I run a gui, I prefer to be logged in before that gui starts up.
Probably systemctl disable lightdm as root then editing startx such that
the last line runs mate gets something like this done.
That's rather heavy-handed.

startx runs the user's ~/.xsession or, if no such file exists, the
user's ~/.xinitrc or, if no such file exists, the system-wide
/etc/X11/Xsession script.

The Debian /etc/X11/Xsession script runs the desktop environment
or window manager that was selected via the Debian "alternatives"
system, by checking for /usr/bin/x-session-manager or
/usr/bin/x-window-manager. Both of which are configured via
update-alternatives.

A typical user running "startx" will either rely on the alternatives
system to decide what programs to run for the X session, or will write
a ~/.xsession file to take full control.

Editing startx itself is not a common choice, and I wouldn't recommend
it -- if for no other reason than simply because your edits will be
lost when the package is updated.
t***@tuxteam.de
2020-06-29 12:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by Jude DaShiell
If I run a gui, I prefer to be logged in before that gui starts up.
Probably systemctl disable lightdm as root then editing startx such that
the last line runs mate gets something like this done.
That's rather heavy-handed.
startx runs the user's ~/.xsession or, if no such file exists, the
user's ~/.xinitrc or, if no such file exists, the system-wide
/etc/X11/Xsession script.
Agreed. The whole xsession config may seem complex at first, but
it is the right place to do it: it offers you a way of having
system-wide settings which can be overridden by users ("users?
What is users, anyway?" ;-)

Plus the probability that (re-) installing some package will
obliterate (or worse: half-obliterate) your work is way lower.

Cheers
-- t
Jude DaShiell
2020-06-29 17:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Do any utilities exist to help users intelligently edit ~/.xsession
files like fleacollar.sh for setting up mutt?
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 08:39:04
Subject: Re: Installing/launching MATE in a command line environment
Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 12:39:23 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Jude DaShiell
If I run a gui, I prefer to be logged in before that gui starts up.
Probably systemctl disable lightdm as root then editing startx such that
the last line runs mate gets something like this done.
That's rather heavy-handed.
startx runs the user's ~/.xsession or, if no such file exists, the
user's ~/.xinitrc or, if no such file exists, the system-wide
/etc/X11/Xsession script.
The Debian /etc/X11/Xsession script runs the desktop environment
or window manager that was selected via the Debian "alternatives"
system, by checking for /usr/bin/x-session-manager or
/usr/bin/x-window-manager. Both of which are configured via
update-alternatives.
A typical user running "startx" will either rely on the alternatives
system to decide what programs to run for the X session, or will write
a ~/.xsession file to take full control.
Editing startx itself is not a common choice, and I wouldn't recommend
it -- if for no other reason than simply because your edits will be
lost when the package is updated.
--
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 10:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the
installation of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
You appear to want to install MATE manually without Recommends, rather
than within the d-i and with Recommends. In that case, you should
That worked.
Thanks
Brian
2020-06-28 18:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Mmm.
Post by Richard Owlett
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the installation
of "recommended" packages.
This is not correct. The installer allows a determined user to override
the usual behaviour of tasksel. You are aware of this. Your choice; you
can coerce d-i into dong what you want.

The behaviour of tasksel is only "unfortunate" for your intended use.
For the vast majority of users it is exactly right. Those who take
another route would do well not to make assumptions and research the
possible outcome of their intended actions.
--
Brian.
songbird
2020-06-28 23:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Richard Owlett wrote:
...
Post by Richard Owlett
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
i use lightdm and edit the config file to have the
auto login happen.

it just works (most of the time as i'm running testing
here or there sometimes a glitch does happen and i have
to either figure it out or live with it until i do).


songbird
Richard Owlett
2020-06-29 10:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by songbird
...
Post by Richard Owlett
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
i use lightdm and edit the config file to have the
auto login happen.
it just works (most of the time as i'm running testing
here or there sometimes a glitch does happen and i have
to either figure it out or live with it until i do).
David Wright had pointed out my problem. Actual prime cause was a
copying error in some personal notes.

I'll keep lightdm in mind for future experiments.
Thanks.
Andrei POPESCU
2020-06-29 19:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
The default install of the MATE desktop installs too much I don't want.
Unfortunately the Debian installer does not allow coerces the installation
of "recommended" packages.
Therefore I did an install without *ANY* desktop environment.
[Used DVD1 of Debian 8.6, latest for which I had a physical DVD]
I then did
apt-get --no-install-recommends install mate-desktop-environment gparted
On reboot the desktop did not appear.
I'm guessing you meant the graphical login interface, in general we
refer to "the desktop" as the stuff that shows up after you login.
Post by Richard Owlett
What is the forgotten command to automatically launch the desktop at boot?
According to dependencies of task-mate-desktop you need (at least):

apt install lightdm


Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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