Discussion:
Debian installation issues
(too old to reply)
David DLC
2017-06-08 05:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I have been trying to install Debian Jessie for about a week now. I have a
64-bit Windows 10 PC. I have shrunk the main C drive by 25 gbs, and turned
off fast boot. I downloaded the AMD-64 small CD iso, and used win32 disk
imager to write it to a 2 gb usb stick. However, when I boot my computer
from the disk, I get the error message "The selected boot device failed.
Press <enter> to continue." I tried another program, Rufus, to write the
image file. There was no difference even when I tried that. I am at a
complete loss at what to do. I don't know if it's a problem with my
computer, or if I am doing something incorrectly.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you
t***@tuxteam.de
2017-06-08 07:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
Hello,
I have been trying to install Debian Jessie for about a week now. I have a
64-bit Windows 10 PC. I have shrunk the main C drive by 25 gbs, and turned
off fast boot. I downloaded the AMD-64 small CD iso, and used win32 disk
imager to write it to a 2 gb usb stick. However, when I boot my computer
from the disk, I get the error message "The selected boot device failed.
Press <enter> to continue."
This seems to be a message from the BIOS, which doesn't recognize the
USB stick as bootable. Which one is at fault is difficult to say from
here, especially taking into account that "at fault" itself is a pretty
wide grey area.
Post by David DLC
I tried another program, Rufus, to write the image file. There was no
difference even when I tried that. I am at a complete loss at what to
do. I don't know if it's a problem with my computer, or if I am doing
something incorrectly.
Yes, the way you get the image to the stick is essential, but I have
no idea what the recommended practices are under Windows. The other
crucial point is: which BIOS do you have? Is secure boot enabled?
What's the model of your PC's motherboard?

Cheers
- -- tomás
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-08 07:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
Hello,
I have been trying to install Debian Jessie for about a week now. I have a
64-bit Windows 10 PC. I have shrunk the main C drive by 25 gbs, and turned
off fast boot. I downloaded the AMD-64 small CD iso, and used win32 disk
imager to write it to a 2 gb usb stick. However, when I boot my computer
from the disk, I get the error message "The selected boot device failed.
Press <enter> to continue." I tried another program, Rufus, to write the
image file. There was no difference even when I tried that. I am at a
complete loss at what to do. I don't know if it's a problem with my
computer, or if I am doing something incorrectly.
​Hi there. Try booting up and loading the bios. Check that it is sniffing
around for usb sticks and DVD's etc by default before trying to boot from
the hard drive. If the default is the hard drive you need to change the
boot order to include the device ie DVD drive or USB stick etc.

It sounds like that might not be the problem here but it is worth checking
anyway.

If you have a DVD drive in the PC try burning the iso onto it and booting
from it instead and see what happens.

Cheers

Michael Fothergill
​
Post by David DLC
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you
t***@tuxteam.de
2017-06-08 08:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Fothergill
Post by David DLC
Hello,
[...] I get the error message "The selected boot device failed.
Press <enter> to continue." [...]
Hi there. Try booting up and loading the bios. Check that it is sniffing
around for usb sticks and DVD's etc by default before trying to boot from
the hard drive. If the default is the hard drive you need to change the
boot order to include the device ie DVD drive or USB stick etc.
It sounds like that might not be the problem here but it is worth checking
anyway.
Indeed. it sounds like it's not the problem: the system *is* finding
some boot device it isn't happy with. And this boot device is most
probably (not 100%, but close ;) the freshly-prepared USB stick. So
I'd say first go for the stick (how it was prepared, etc.) then go
for the BIOS. Then go for the rest.

cheers
- -- t
David DLC
2017-06-08 16:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list before,
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
"reply all" or just reply to the debian-***@lists.debian.org address?

Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my computer, I
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot order
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.

I have also tried rewriting the ISO multiple times, with both the complete
and smaller installation sets. I can try another USB stick, but I don't
have any lying around and would likely need to purchase a new one.

I have attached the system info if anyone would like to take a look:

OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Home
Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DAVIDDLC
System Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
System Model HP Spectre XT TouchSmart PC
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU C2M71UA#ABA
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3517U CPU @ 1.90GHz, 2401 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4
Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Insyde F.04, 11/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.7
Embedded Controller Version 68.57
BIOS Mode UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
BaseBoard Model Not Available
BaseBoard Name Base Board
Platform Role Mobile
Secure Boot State Off
PCR7 Configuration Binding Not Possible
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "10.0.14393.206"
User Name DAVIDDLC\Other_2
Time Zone Central Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 7.90 GB
Available Physical Memory 5.79 GB
Total Virtual Memory 9.15 GB
Available Virtual Memory 7.08 GB
Page File Space 1.25 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection Yes
Greg Wooledge
2017-06-08 16:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list before,
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
For this mailing list, you are expected to reply only to the list address,
unless the person to whom you're replying explicitly requests personal
responses. (This is different from most other technical support mailing
lists in the world, where the expectation is "reply all".)
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my computer, I
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot order
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.

The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.

If you're doing it from a Unix/Linux system, then follow the
instructions at <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03>.
David DLC
2017-06-08 17:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for the info on the mailing address.
Post by Greg Wooledge
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32d
iskimager/>
Post by Greg Wooledge
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
I actually used that program to write the ISO to the USB stick the first
time I tried it, but it didn't work.
Post by Greg Wooledge
I have found that I needed to repeat usb stick iso file burning or
whatever term you use for it; sometimes it didn't work ie wouldn't boot
from it the first time - try wiping the stick and using Rufus again to burn
the iso onto it and have > another go.

I tried to rewrite the file, but it still did not work correctly. I don't
know what is going on. I can't get the Debian installation page to appear,
no matter what I do.
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list
before,
Post by David DLC
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
For this mailing list, you are expected to reply only to the list address,
unless the person to whom you're replying explicitly requests personal
responses. (This is different from most other technical support mailing
lists in the world, where the expectation is "reply all".)
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my
computer, I
Post by David DLC
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot
order
Post by David DLC
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/
win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
If you're doing it from a Unix/Linux system, then follow the
instructions at <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03>.
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-08 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
Thank you for the info on the mailing address.
Post by Greg Wooledge
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32d
iskimager/>
Post by Greg Wooledge
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
I actually used that program to write the ISO to the USB stick the first
time I tried it, but it didn't work.
Post by Greg Wooledge
I have found that I needed to repeat usb stick iso file burning or
whatever term you use for it; sometimes it didn't work ie wouldn't boot
from it the first time - try wiping the stick and using Rufus again to burn
the iso onto it and have > another go.
I tried to rewrite the file, but it still did not work correctly. I don't
know what is going on. I can't get the Debian installation page to appear,
no matter what I do.
​Find a buddy who has an external DVD drive......

Attach it to your machine, burn the iso to a DVD and then boot from
it...........

Cheers

MF​
Post by David DLC
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list
before,
Post by David DLC
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
For this mailing list, you are expected to reply only to the list address,
unless the person to whom you're replying explicitly requests personal
responses. (This is different from most other technical support mailing
lists in the world, where the expectation is "reply all".)
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my
computer, I
Post by David DLC
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot
order
Post by David DLC
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot
to
Post by David DLC
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish
to
Post by David DLC
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32d
iskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
If you're doing it from a Unix/Linux system, then follow the
instructions at <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03>.
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-08 17:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Fothergill
Post by David DLC
Thank you for the info on the mailing address.
Post by Greg Wooledge
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32d
iskimager/>
Post by Greg Wooledge
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
I actually used that program to write the ISO to the USB stick the first
time I tried it, but it didn't work.
Post by Greg Wooledge
I have found that I needed to repeat usb stick iso file burning or
whatever term you use for it; sometimes it didn't work ie wouldn't boot
from it the first time - try wiping the stick and using Rufus again to burn
the iso onto it and have > another go.
I tried to rewrite the file, but it still did not work correctly. I don't
know what is going on. I can't get the Debian installation page to appear,
no matter what I do.
​Find a buddy who has an external DVD drive......
Attach it to your machine, burn the iso to a DVD and then boot from
it...........
Cheers
MF​
​PS If you have a buddy who uses Linux distros ask them to see if they can
get your usb stick to work in their machine ie you can boot debian from it.

Some usb sticks are easier than others to boot from I have found.....

​Once you know that stick works, try it on your machine.

If that still doesn't work, then go for the external drive plan B option
above.

Regards

MF


​

​
Post by Michael Fothergill
Post by David DLC
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list
before,
Post by David DLC
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
For this mailing list, you are expected to reply only to the list address,
unless the person to whom you're replying explicitly requests personal
responses. (This is different from most other technical support mailing
lists in the world, where the expectation is "reply all".)
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my
computer, I
Post by David DLC
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The
computer
Post by David DLC
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot
order
Post by David DLC
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot
to
Post by David DLC
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish
to
Post by David DLC
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32d
iskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
If you're doing it from a Unix/Linux system, then follow the
instructions at <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03>.
Brian
2017-06-08 17:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Wooledge
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my computer, I
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot order
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
Steve McIntyre, a Debian Developer whose views on such matters is to be
respected, currently recommends Rufus in dd mode. I've no real idea what
that implies because I do have a Windows OS. Would being able to view
the files on the stick be comforting? Probably not, I imagine.
Pascal Hambourg
2017-06-08 18:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
Post by Greg Wooledge
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
Steve McIntyre, a Debian Developer whose views on such matters is to be
respected, currently recommends Rufus in dd mode.
I guess you are referring to the following bug report :

<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=863868>

But when trying Rufus I found that it offers so many options and choices
which are not easy to understand that it is extremely easy to select the
wrong mode.
Brian
2017-06-08 19:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pascal Hambourg
Post by Brian
Post by Greg Wooledge
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
Steve McIntyre, a Debian Developer whose views on such matters is to be
respected, currently recommends Rufus in dd mode.
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=863868>
But when trying Rufus I found that it offers so many options and choices
which are not easy to understand that it is extremely easy to select the
wrong mode.
Having declared my position vis-à-vis Windows I could not possibly
comment. Others are in the more fortunate position to test Rufus
and Win32 Disk Imager and offer advice here. Not having the same
hardware as the OP shouldn't be an impediment to contributing.
Relating the experience adds to the sum total of knowledge and (in
addition) could help the OP.

I find it hard to believe that producing a program which writes a
bootable Debian image to a USB stick on Windows is beyond the
capabilities of a developer on that platform.
Felix Miata
2017-06-08 18:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Wooledge
For this mailing list, you are expected to reply only to the list address,
unless the person to whom you're replying explicitly requests personal
responses. (This is different from most other technical support mailing
lists in the world, where the expectation is "reply all".)
That's not my experience. Most lists (I've been on upwards of 70 at a time) that
do not munge so that the reply automatically and sensibly goes back to the list
from whence it came frown on use of reply-all, expecting replies to go, as here,
only to the post's author.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-09 14:00:02 UTC
Permalink
UTC Time: June 8, 2017 4:17 PM
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list
before,
Post by David DLC
so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I hit
For this mailing list, you are expected to ..........
whaaat ever ....
Post by David DLC
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my
computer, I
Post by David DLC
specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot
order
Post by David DLC
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.
If you used Windows to put the ISO image onto the USB stick, it's
quite possible it wasn't done correctly.
Get used to Greg on this list making vague assumptions on things and
blaming the victim for anything the victim is having problems with, never
the system. The system must not be challenged.
In trying to convince others to switch from windows to a better and higher
performing system, despite of hardware, one must learn to work with windows
to begin with, because nobody is willing to wipe everything they have off
and start with a clean disk.
Rufus in my experience has been 100% reliable in burning images of all
sorts. It is small and fast. If in reverse try from linux to burn an
ms-win-installation image, chances are that you will fail despite of what
way you may try to do so. Propbably Thomas from xorisso fame can explain
better the whys and why nots. I give up trying to understand the reasons.
Let's hope you do not live in isolation, there are others with a pc around
you and not all run win10. Try and boot your stick in their system, no
harm can be done if you don't install anythin. If by any chance you make a
debian-live-installation image you may even get to see debian come a-live
without an installation.
Since the debian world is really poor in applied technical information
location, try the ubuntu (askubuntu) for help/faq. It is a friendlier
environment and easier to find solutions. 99% of what you will find there
works for debian too. Especially on this specific issue there is a ton of
instructions.
The #debian bot currently recommends <http://sf.net/projects/
win32diskimager/>
if you need to write the Debian install image to a USB device from
Windows.
I am willing to bet the image written through rufus is fine, your problem
is booting up from usb as people have mentioned before. I like to assume
that you did not install win10 in an older pc but bought a recent pc with
win10 in it. The following will not help you "fix your problem" but it is
more like talking about THE problem so your frustration is not misdirected
to the wrong direction.
MS with win10, using the excuse of a protection of your system, managed to
effectively block other systems of getting installed next to win10.
​Is this really the case? I use windows 10 and it does not stop me running
a triple boot system on a single disk.

Try using grub2win: https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub2win/ - install
it in windows 10 and play around with it and see if you can get it to see
your usb stick.

Regards

MF
So ms to promote themselves and diminish competition (what's new?) did
what they did. Then they manhandled manufacturers to incorporate their
evil into what they sell to you. And you paid for this problem to your
ventor. Did you know when you purchased your product and license you
became part of the problem people are addressing to solve?
Why not a worldwide class action suit against manufacturers, vendors, and
retailers of all sorts for not warning you the product is nearly useless
without win10? Thanks to some who resist and make and sell linux based
products off the shelf. Let's not talk about fruit vendors here.
If not, you deserve what you got, and I am sorry to have to tell you. I
think you should go back to whoever sold you a lemon for an apple and make
them either pay you back what you paid of install Debian for you on your
partition. It should only take 20' not several days.
Ohhh... you accepted some license that told you so in the fine print? I
am sorry! Really .... keep paying for problems you distribute around.
If you're doing it from a Unix/Linux system, then follow the
instructions at <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03>
I have given up reading any documentation from debian, it is all written
by developers for engineers and vice-versa. If you are not one of them it
is a waste of time. If you read the instructions on how to write a
document from your pc to a usb disk, chances are that you will need to
learn 5 more things to do so, and each one of them will require learning 5
other new things, and so on and forth and back. It is easier to copy the
document in marble with a cheasel than learn all this. Depending on your
psychological profile you may actually like all this. Welcome to our world
of whips and chains.
It is nowhere as boring as windows world but you never have to worry of
buying the wrong license.
Now if you would rather install a more humaine and civil system try
Manjaro. The choice is like a Pegasus with broken wings, constantly, and a
horse incapable of flying.
Greg will convince you the horse is capable of flying, you just need to
understand how or accept that it was you that broke its wings.
Cheers, mate
Keep the shiny side up (an old bold bikerz for jessaash saying)
Michael Lange
2017-06-09 16:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:34:47 +0100
Michael Fothergill <***@gmail.com> wrote:

(...)
I am willing to bet the image written through rufus is fine, your
problem is booting up from usb as people have mentioned before. I
like to assume that you did not install win10 in an older pc but
bought a recent pc with win10 in it. The following will not help you
"fix your problem" but it is more like talking about THE problem so
your frustration is not misdirected to the wrong direction.
MS with win10, using the excuse of a protection of your system,
managed to effectively block other systems of getting installed next
to win10.
​Is this really the case? I use windows 10 and it does not stop me
running a triple boot system on a single disk.
Try using grub2win: https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub2win/ -
install it in windows 10 and play around with it and see if you can get
it to see your usb stick.
A while ago I installed linux (not debian, but I don't think that matters
here) onto a laptop with a pre-installed win10, there was not any problem
with the EFI/BIOS finding the usb thumb drive with the installer iso and
booting into it. Hence I doubt that the OP's problem is that windows
prevents him from booting the install media. I did not follow this thread
closely from the beginning, but I believe it is more likely that either
the installer drive was not set up correctly or that some Efi/Bios
setting is not correct. Or maybe it is one of these odd devices that have
been discussed here a couple of days ago in a different thread, which are
64bit machines with a 32bit EFI.

Regards

Michael



.-.. .. ...- . .-.. --- -. --. .- -. -.. .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

No one can guarantee the actions of another.
-- Spock, "Day of the Dove", stardate unknown
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-08 16:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
Thank you for all the replies! I haven't really used a mailing list
before, so I'm not 100% sure I'm responding to the correct location. Do I
Anyway, I have disabled secure boot, but that didn't seem to solve the
problem. My computer does not have a DVD drive, so I put the ISO (
debian-8.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso) on a USB stick. When booting my computer,
I specifically click "use a device", then "USB Drive (UEFI)". The computer
runs for a minute, then pops up the error message. I don't think boot order
would change this, as I am booting specifically from the USB. I forgot to
mention that I am attempting to dual boot my computer, so I don't wish to
remove Windows completely.
I have also tried rewriting the ISO multiple times, with both the complete
and smaller installation sets. I can try another USB stick, but I don't
have any lying around and would likely need to purchase a new one.
​You are posting correctly as far as I can see. I have used Rufus and it
worked easily. I assume that your usb stick works OK to store files in the
conventional way.

I have found that I needed to repeat usb stick iso file burning or whatever
term you use for it; sometimes it didn't work ie wouldn't boot from it the
first time - try wiping the stick and using Rufus again to burn the iso
onto it and have another go.

Cheers

MF
​
Post by David DLC
OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Home
Version 10.0.14393 Build 14393
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DAVIDDLC
System Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
System Model HP Spectre XT TouchSmart PC
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU C2M71UA#ABA
4 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Insyde F.04, 11/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.7
Embedded Controller Version 68.57
BIOS Mode UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
BaseBoard Model Not Available
BaseBoard Name Base Board
Platform Role Mobile
Secure Boot State Off
PCR7 Configuration Binding Not Possible
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "10.0.14393.206"
User Name DAVIDDLC\Other_2
Time Zone Central Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 7.90 GB
Available Physical Memory 5.79 GB
Total Virtual Memory 9.15 GB
Available Virtual Memory 7.08 GB
Page File Space 1.25 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection Yes
David Christensen
2017-06-09 02:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DLC
HP Spectre XT TouchSmart PC
The first task is to get a known good USB flash drive with the Debian
installer in it. Is there a local Linux Users Group, or do you have a
knowledgeable friend, who can help you with this?


The next task is booting the Debian installer USB flash drive. This is
a matter of adjusting BIOS/EFI/UEFI firmware settings until you find a
combination that works. Be sure to write down the factory settings
before you start, as you will likely break the ability of the computer
to boot Windows. Finding one configuration that boots either, selected
via a POST hot key, would be ideal.


The next task is installing Debian on the computer. Dual-boot sounds
appealing, but I found it to be a PITA to implement and maintain. It is
far easier to give each operating system its own system drive. For my
desktop and server machines, I put the HDD/SSD in mobile racks. I am
fortunate it that my older Dell Latitude E1505 laptop puts the HDD in an
externally-accessible bay.


Looking at the Maintenance and Service Guide for your computer:

http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03572829.pdf

Hard drive
Support for 6.35-cm (2.5-in) hard drives in 7.0-mm (.28-in) thickness
Serial ATA
Support for hard drive configuration as cache 32-GB mSATA
(installed with hard drive only)
Support for Accelerometer hard drive protection
Support for the following hard drives:
● 500-GB, 7200-rpm, 7.0-mm
● 500-GB, 5400-rpm, 7.0-mm

Solid-state drive
Support for mSATA solid-state drives
Serial ATA III
Support for the following single solid-state drive configurations:
● 256-GB mSATA
● 128-GB mSATA
Support for Intel Smart Response Technology 32-GB solid-state drive


I would suggest using a 2.5" HDD/SSD for Windows and using an mSATA SSD
for Debian. If your computer has both and the mSATA device is
configured as a cache, you will want to reconfigure the firmware and/or
Windows to stop using the cache before you install Debian.


David
didier gaumet
2017-06-08 08:30:02 UTC
Permalink
As Tomas and Michael have suggested, you might have a look at your
BIOS/UEFI setup in order to verify the boot order and to disable Secure
Boot: disabling Fast Boot has nothing to do witrh Secure Boot and Debian
cannot manage Secure Boot without special procedures

It is worth noting that the Debian Installer can be launched from inside
Microsoft Windows: try to plug your stick in a USD port from your
running Windows and then execute setup.exe (it is in the root folder of
the stick). You could also directltly go to
https://people.debian.org/~rmh/goodbye-microsoft/ to load the installer
from internet.
As simple as you can get...
(cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32-loader)
Thomas Schmitt
2017-06-09 08:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
try from linux to burn an
ms-win-installation image, chances are that you will fail despite of what
way you may try to do so.
Are there any such images available for free and legally safe to have
and to talk about ?
Propbably Thomas from xorisso fame can explain
better the whys and why nots.
Well, Microsoft Inc. will hardly use xorriso to create its images.

If it is about ISO 9660 filesystems which shall boot on BIOS and/or EFI
from DVD and USB stick, then such a filesystem image has to be copied
plainly on the blocks of a storage device. Depending on the device type
the reader software (BIOS, EFI, Linux, MS-Windows, ...) will interpret
the first blocks as MBR boot code and/or partition table or ignore them.

An important point is whether the image is supposed to represent a whole
storage device or a single partition of such a device. All known Linux
installation ISOs are to be put on the whole storage device.

Nevertheless ISOLINUX offers an opportunity to prepare isohybrid images
which are to be put onto a primary MBR partition. This partition will be
booted by an MBR which looks for the boot flag in the partition table.
Such MBRs are often found on newly bought USB sticks. The boot flag
MBR convention seems to be usual in the Windows world.
So a Microsoft Inc. image might well be meant for a partition, not the
whole storage device.

Of course it might be that Microsoft "images" need some unpacking or
patching before they get installed at various block ranges of a device.
But actually the term "image" stems from the concept of a 1:1 copy of
a storage device in form of a data file.
I have given up reading any documentation from debian, it is all written by
developers for engineers and vice-versa.  If you are not one of them it is a
waste of time.
A better reaction would be to contact the writers and to negotiate better
representation of the facts which shall be described.
A manual must be understandable and be correct. Not easy to achieve.
If you read the instructions on how to write a document from
your pc to a usb disk, chances are that you will need to learn 5 more things
to do so,
It is sincere sysadmin work to copy an image onto a storage device.
So you best first learn the ways of GNU/Linux: device model, filesystem
model, byte streams, shell, ... lots of concepts which play together.

For the desktop addicted user, there should better be a GUI tool which
keeps that user from overwriting the system disk or unpacking the ISO.
It is easier to copy the document in marble with a cheasel than learn
all this.
But only if the text is short and you are an experienced chiseller.

Don't forget the initial wonder of computerisation: Exactness.
It computes like a lightning and still does it correctly.
You can mistoggle your text and correct it without Tipp-Ex or rubber.
It remembers all your mistakes until you find an opportunity to correct
them.

Neither ink nor marble can do this for you. (Not to speak of the human
brain and its tendency to mess up after a few dozen steps.)
Welcome to our world of whips and chains.
Actually it's math. The painful pursuit of exact thinking.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas
Joe
2017-06-09 11:40:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 10:47:25 +0200
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Hi,
try from linux to burn an
ms-win-installation image, chances are that you will fail despite
of what way you may try to do so.
Are there any such images available for free and legally safe to have
and to talk about ?
Oddly enough, there are:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise

I haven't registered and investigated, so I don't know the size
involved. They may well be netinstalls, or they may be far larger than
is easily available as a USB stick. But they are expected to be
installed, so it's doubtful that they require the user to mount
the .iso file from a hard drive location.
--
Joe
Thomas Schmitt
2017-06-09 14:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Joe
Are there any [MS-Windows] images available for free and legally safe
https://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise
The registration gives me creeps. I came up to the question whether
i want to use a Microsoft or LinkedIn account. The Microsoft account
creation asks me ifor info which i'd rather not want to give.

The description speaks of "Windows 10 Enterprise, version 1703 | 64-bit ISO"
which lets me expect that one really would get a ISO 9660 filesystem image.

I cannot find a legal statement whether it is permissible to give the
ISO image to others. So i have to assume that there is no such permission.
All in all i am not yet curious enough to start a legal relation with
Microsoft Inc.
Post by Joe
All known Linux
installation ISOs are to be put on the whole storage device.
Then you can format and partition the left over disk and even install linux
in it with grub and stuff.  I think!
Adding partitions to claim the remaining device space is possible,
although the often crammed partition table combinations make many
partition editors scream. fdisk should be ok for Debian images,
because it ignores the Apple Partition Map and the invalid GPT in
those ISOs.

But replacing the ISO booting ISOLINUX by GRUB, or coordinating the
ISO booting GRUB with a local GRUB installation might become tricky.
At least you will have to learn about both boot loaders.
(A Debian ISOs boot by ISOLINUX on BIOS and by GRUB on EFI.)
Post by Joe
Rufus works like a champ, why and how I couldn't possibly know.  All
attempts from linux side produced a non-bootable windows installation disk
If you have such an ISO passing by a Linux machine, i would be interested
to see the output of

iso=...Path.to.ISO.image.file.or.to.CD.drive...
xorriso -indev "$iso" -report_el_torito plain -report_system_area plain

This would give indications what kind of firmware on what kind of
storage device is supposed to boot the image.
(Or maybe it just reveils a new xorriso bug. Exotic input often yields
exotic behavior ...)
Post by Joe
Lightning fast was my foot kicking the machine!
Consider that they remember everything.
A future civilization of AI entities will look back and judge our behavior.
Do you want to be mentioned as human barbarian, 3rd degree, number 3210620 ?

My entry in the logs shall be "He never abandoned a piece of hardware
before it was dead" or "His hands on the keyboard were always warm".


Have a nice day :)

Thomas
Dan Ritter
2017-06-09 17:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Hi,
Post by Joe
Are there any [MS-Windows] images available for free and legally safe
https://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise
The registration gives me creeps. I came up to the question whether
i want to use a Microsoft or LinkedIn account. The Microsoft account
creation asks me ifor info which i'd rather not want to give.
The description speaks of "Windows 10 Enterprise, version 1703 | 64-bit ISO"
which lets me expect that one really would get a ISO 9660 filesystem image.
I cannot find a legal statement whether it is permissible to give the
ISO image to others. So i have to assume that there is no such permission.
All in all i am not yet curious enough to start a legal relation with
Microsoft Inc.
Microsoft requires you to pay for their software.

They do not enforce this in the software itself, however. I
would consider it ethical to use their software once to
determine compatibility, after which you should pay for a
license or delete it.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO/

is where one downloads ISOs. There is no account creation or
registration required. The installation process will ask you to
agree to their EULA; if you do not, the install halts. It will
also ask for a license key, but you do not have to fill that in
immediately.

-dsr-
Thomas Schmitt
2017-06-09 18:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Dan Ritter
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10ISO/
The site creates a download link which is valid for one day.
4+ GB. Only good that my phone provider forced me on a 50 Mbit/s
line last year.

$ xorriso -indev Win10_1607_English_x64.iso -report_el_torito plain -report_system_area plain
...
Volume id : 'CCSA_X64FRE_EN-US_DV5'
El Torito catalog : 22 1
El Torito images : N Pltf B Emul Ld_seg Hdpt Ldsiz LBA
El Torito boot img : 1 BIOS y none 0x0000 0x00 8 539
El Torito boot img : 2 UEFI y none 0x0000 0x00 1 541
El Torito img blks : 1 2
El Torito img blks : 2 2138320
xorriso : NOTE : No System Area was loaded

No MBR and no partition tables to see.
So the ISO is only prepared for booting from CD, DVD, or BD media.
Not for hard disk or USB stick.


Since we are at it, let's have a look at the filesytems:

There is only one data file in the ISO 9660. Its content says
This disc contains a "UDF" file system and requires an operating system
that supports the ISO-13346 "UDF" file system specification.

So i mount it
# mount -t udf -o loop Win10_1607_English_x64.iso /mnt/iso
and then can see lots of files underneath /mnt/iso.
$ du -s /mnt/iso
4273306 /mnt/iso

The content of the EFI System partition is similarly meager as in
a Debian ISO.
# mount -t vfat -o loop,offset=1107968 Win10_1607_English_x64.iso /mnt/fat
The offset number 1107968 was computed from UEFI boot image LBA 541
multiplied by DVD block size 2048 bytes.
$ find /mnt/fat -exec ls -ld '{}' ';'
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 7168 Jan 1 1970 /mnt/fat
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 512 Jul 15 2016 /mnt/fat/EFI
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 512 Jul 15 2016 /mnt/fat/EFI/BOOT
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 869216 Jul 15 2016 /mnt/fat/EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI


Have a nice day :)

Thomas
Thomas Schmitt
2017-06-10 07:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

by mistake Fungi4All and i exchanged a few mails in private.
I put this back to the list (although it could deserve a new topic).

He showed me a xorriso report of a MS-Windows "ISO" (which we now
know is actually an UDF filesystem), and i stated the same as with
it is only prepared for booting from CD, DVD, or BD but not from
hard disk or USB stick.
So BIOS must still be able to act smart to pass it on for execution?
I would have to act against the specs.
To boot from hard disk or USB stick, there must be a Master Boot Record.

BIOS loads the 512 bytes of this first block of the disk and executes them
as 16 bit x86 program. This program then has to do what is necessary to
start the boot loader and later the operating system.

EFI only looks at the partition table. There are two kinds of table in
use: MBR based or GPT. In case of a MBR partition table, EFI looks for
a partition with type 0xef. If the MBR partition table only contains only
one partition starting at block 1, there might be a GUID Partition Table
where EFI looks for a partition with type GUID
C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B.
In the EFI partition there must be a FAT filesystem which contains
EFI boot programs like
/EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI for amd64
/EFI/BOOT/BOOTIA32.EFI for i386
/EFI/BOOT/BOOTAA64.EFI for arm64

The EFI System Partition is in the MS-Windows image. But it is not
advertised by a partition table. Only by El Torito, which is to be
interpreted only if presented on CD, DVD, or BD media.
Are you saying that the boot part of what I send you is pretty much the
same as that of win10ent you downloaded? [...] that image is for a
version of the system 3 generations back, [...]
The boot equipment is the same. El Torito for BIOS and EFI. No MBR.
The size 1 of the EFI System Partition says that it might extend
up to the end of the image or storage device.
So whether it is on a 4gb medium or 256gb medium it wouldn't matter as
it can not read that far.
El Torito can store only block counts up to 65535 which means 32 MiB minus
1 block. If the EFI partition is larger, then UEFI specs prescribe to set
the size field to 0 or 1, which both mean that it might reach up to the
end of the medium.
The FAT filesystem inside the EFI partition has its own size fields.
So a reader of the FAT filesystem will not be lured into reading blocks
which do not belong to the FAT filesystem.

In the case of Win10_1607_English_x64.iso there is really no need to
announce 0 or 1. The FAT filesystem is far smaller than 32 MB.
There seems to be not more than a single file in the ISO.
So possibly all the show happens inside the FAT filesystem of the
EFI System Partition.
I suppose the installer and data is all compressed in one file
At least in case of Win10_1607_English_x64.iso my suspicion was wrong.
The show happens in the UDF filesystem. The EFI partition is too small
to contain much brain.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas
Pascal Hambourg
2017-06-10 08:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Schmitt
To boot from hard disk or USB stick, there must be a Master Boot Record.
In linux alone the MBR is unnecessary and boot info can be stored in
each partition and be handled by grub or lilo. Correct?
Not correct. A MBR is necessary for either BIOS or UEFI boot from this
kind of device.
Fungi4All
2017-06-10 08:50:02 UTC
Permalink
UTC Time: June 10, 2017 8:19 AM
Post by Thomas Schmitt
To boot from hard disk or USB stick, there must be a Master Boot Record.
In linux alone the MBR is unnecessary and boot info can be stored in
each partition and be handled by grub or lilo. Correct?
Not correct. A MBR is necessary for either BIOS or UEFI boot from this
kind of device.

I just read the following on the necessity of some kind of an MBR
https://www.howtogeek.com/193669/whats-the-difference-between-gpt-and-mbr-when-partitioning-a-drive/

GPT drives tend to include a “protective MBR.” This type of MBR says that the GPT drive has a single partition that extends across the entire drive. If you try to manage a GPT disk with an old tool that can only read MBRs, it will see a single partition that extends across the entire drive. This protective MBR ensures the old tools won’t mistake the GPT drive for an unpartitioned drive and overwrite its GPT data with a new MBR. In other words, the protective MBR protects the GPT data from being overwritten.

Windows can only boot from GPT on UEFI-based computers running 64-bit versions of Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista, and corresponding server versions. All versions of Windows 10, 8, 7, and Vista can read GPT drives and use them for data—they just can’t boot from them without UEFI.
Joe
2017-06-09 17:40:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:24:20 +0200
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Hi,
Post by Joe
Are there any [MS-Windows] images available for free and legally safe
https://www.microsoft.com/en-GB/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise
The registration gives me creeps. I came up to the question whether
i want to use a Microsoft or LinkedIn account. The Microsoft account
creation asks me ifor info which i'd rather not want to give.
I have a very old (@hotmail.com) emergency Hotmail account, which is
still acceptable as a Microsoft ID, though MS truncated the password
to 16 characters some years ago. I bought MS Access for a client using
it about a year ago. I've no idea what information I gave to create it,
but that must have been around 20 years ago.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
The description speaks of "Windows 10 Enterprise, version 1703 |
64-bit ISO" which lets me expect that one really would get a ISO 9660
filesystem image.
I think so, my only concern was how big it is, it may only fit on a
Blu-Ray disc, or not even that.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
I cannot find a legal statement whether it is permissible to give the
ISO image to others. So i have to assume that there is no such
permission. All in all i am not yet curious enough to start a legal
relation with Microsoft Inc.
Me neither, but it *is* a free and legally installable MS OS, fulfilling
the conditions... there are also Win 8 versions. I may possibly still
have NT4 180-day evaluation CDs somewhere in my loft, but probably the
installation is date-limited and won't work. Though they would still
work as a test of iso-burning and booting.
--
Joe
Fungi4All
2017-06-09 20:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Here is some relevant reading of installing linux system besides Win8 and in some cases the same problem exists on Win 10.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-alongside-a-pre-installed-windows-with-uefi

Ok, MS did what they did, but manufacturers accepted this and incorporated it into their product which you pay.
It is like paying for an MS only system without knowing it.
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-09 21:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fungi4All
Here is some relevant reading of installing linux system besides Win8 and
in some cases the same problem exists on Win 10.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-alongside-a-pre-
installed-windows-with-uefi
​I read through some of this. If I understood it correctly, if you buy a
machine that comes with e.g. Windows 10 installed for you then this secure
boot feature would make it difficult to boot and install certain Linux
distributions - but some versions of Ubuntu might be OK apparently.

But if you would buy such a machine, do you not also get the Windows key
codes for the OS.......?????

If you do, then could you not just back up the work files on the
installation and then uninstall Windows and reinstall it with the secure
boot feature turned off and then install the Linux distro of your choice?

When I get a new PC I specifically request that it has no operating system
on it and then install everything from scratch.

I have not encountered this problem as yet.

Cheers

MF
Post by Fungi4All
Ok, MS did what they did, but manufacturers accepted this and incorporated
it into their product which you pay.
It is like paying for an MS only system without knowing it.
Richard Owlett
2017-06-10 13:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fungi4All
Here is some relevant reading of installing linux system besides Win8 and
in some cases the same problem exists on Win 10.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-alongside-a-pre-
installed-windows-with-uefi
​I read through some of this. If I understood it correctly, if you buy a
machine that comes with e.g. Windows 10 installed for you then this secure
boot feature would make it difficult to boot and install certain Linux
distributions - but some versions of Ubuntu might be OK apparently.
But if you would buy such a machine, do you not also get the Windows key
codes for the OS.......?????
If you do, then could you not just back up the work files on the
installation and then uninstall Windows and reinstall it with the
secure boot feature turned off and then install the Linux distro
of your choice?
When I get a new PC I specifically request that it has no operating
system on it and then install everything from scratch.
I follow a variation on that that suits my personal/idiosyncratic
preferences for buying used/reconditioned hardware (no need for cutting
edge) and buying locally rather than online (fewer communication snafus).

I go into the store with a live DVD or flash drive. I began doing this
to see if a standard install of Debian had appropriate drivers. I found
a secondary advantage in discovering how straight forward it was to boot
from something other than the default hard disk. A couple months ago I
had occasion to go one step further and while and do a full install
while in the store (odd permutation of hardware and software).
YMMV
I have not encountered this problem as yet.
I'm not clear to what "this problem" refers.
Cheers
MF
Michael Fothergill
2017-06-11 14:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by Fungi4All
Here is some relevant reading of installing linux system besides Win8 and
Post by Fungi4All
in some cases the same problem exists on Win 10.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-
alongside-a-pre-
installed-windows-with-uefi
​I read through some of this. If I understood it correctly, if you buy a
machine that comes with e.g. Windows 10 installed for you then this secure
boot feature would make it difficult to boot and install certain Linux
distributions - but some versions of Ubuntu might be OK apparently.
But if you would buy such a machine, do you not also get the Windows key
codes for the OS.......?????
If you do, then could you not just back up the work files on the
installation and then uninstall Windows and reinstall it with the
secure boot feature turned off and then install the Linux distro
of your choice?
When I get a new PC I specifically request that it has no operating
system on it and then install everything from scratch.
I follow a variation on that that suits my personal/idiosyncratic
preferences for buying used/reconditioned hardware (no need for cutting
edge) and buying locally rather than online (fewer communication snafus).
I go into the store with a live DVD or flash drive. I began doing this to
see if a standard install of Debian had appropriate drivers. I found a
secondary advantage in discovering how straight forward it was to boot from
something other than the default hard disk. A couple months ago I had
occasion to go one step further and while and do a full install while in
the store (odd permutation of hardware and software).
YMMV
Post by Fungi4All
I have not encountered this problem as yet.
I'm not clear to what "this problem" refers.
​As I understand it, it is possible to purchase a PC or laptop which has
Windows 10 preinstalled on the hard drive.

Apparently the default installation in a UEFI capable machine includes
something called the "secure boot" facility. This new feature makes
installing Linux distros difficult in some cases.
We have been trying to help the OP with this problem.

Regards

MF

​
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by Fungi4All
Cheers
MF
Richard Owlett
2017-06-11 14:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Owlett
Post by Fungi4All
Here is some relevant reading of installing linux system besides Win8 and
Post by Fungi4All
in some cases the same problem exists on Win 10.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-
alongside-a-pre-
installed-windows-with-uefi
​I read through some of this. If I understood it correctly, if you buy a
machine that comes with e.g. Windows 10 installed for you then this secure
boot feature would make it difficult to boot and install certain Linux
distributions - but some versions of Ubuntu might be OK apparently.
But if you would buy such a machine, do you not also get the Windows key
codes for the OS.......?????
If you do, then could you not just back up the work files on the
installation and then uninstall Windows and reinstall it with the
secure boot feature turned off and then install the Linux distro
of your choice?
When I get a new PC I specifically request that it has no operating
system on it and then install everything from scratch.
I follow a variation on that that suits my personal/idiosyncratic
preferences for buying used/reconditioned hardware (no need for cutting
edge) and buying locally rather than online (fewer communication snafus).
I go into the store with a live DVD or flash drive. I began doing this to
see if a standard install of Debian had appropriate drivers. I found a
secondary advantage in discovering how straight forward it was to boot from
something other than the default hard disk. A couple months ago I had
occasion to go one step further and while and do a full install while in
the store (odd permutation of hardware and software).
YMMV
Post by Fungi4All
I have not encountered this problem as yet.
I'm not clear to what "this problem" refers.
​As I understand it, it is possible to purchase a PC or laptop which has
Windows 10 preinstalled on the hard drive.
Apparently the default installation in a UEFI capable machine includes
something called the "secure boot" facility. This new feature makes
installing Linux distros difficult in some cases.
We have been trying to help the OP with this problem.
Thank you. I hadn't been sure if you were referring to his overall
problem or a specific aspect.

From a Ubuntu related reference someone gave, "secure boot" is a known
problem for his hardware.

Celejar
2017-06-09 19:10:02 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 10:47:25 +0200
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Hi,
try from linux to burn an
ms-win-installation image, chances are that you will fail despite of what
way you may try to do so.
Are there any such images available for free and legally safe to have
and to talk about ?
Well, Microsoft will let you download ISOs to do a Windows install,
although you'll need a product key to activate it:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows8ISO

I went through this procedure a while back when I bought a ThinkPad
with Windows installed. I installed Debian on the bare metal, and then
used the ISO (burned onto a USB, with a simple dd, IIRC) to reinstall
Windows in a qemu-kvm VM.

Celejar
Thomas Schmitt
2017-06-10 09:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Thomas Schmitt
In linux alone the MBR is unnecessary and boot info can be stored in
each partition and be handled by grub or lilo.  Correct?
Not really. A hard-disk-like device that is bootable via BIOS or EFI
must have an MBR. For BIOS because of the x86 prgram. For EFI because
of the need for a partition table. Either MBR partitions or GPT.

Bootloaders like GRUB install their own MBR programs and/or prepare an
EFI System Partition. This happens when you install the boot loader.

As mentioned previously, there is also the boot flag convention, which
is _not_ followed by GRUB and SYSLINUX. This convention expects a program
in the MBR which looks for the boot flag in the MBR partition table.
Then it loads the first block of the partition which has the boot flag
and executes the loaded bytes as x86 program. Aka "chainloading".
Post by Thomas Schmitt
So this is always found in 0-512b and can not be relocated otherwise it
will  not be and can not be found.
Yes. The starting points for BIOS and EFI are in the first 512 bytes.
The minimum requirement for an MBR is that byte 510 must have value 0x55
and byte 511 must have value 0xaa.
But BIOS expects some mindful program bytes for the CPU. EFI expects
at least one partition in the MBR partition table. So there must be some
more beef which depends on the programmer's discretion and skills.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
the order of logical and extended partitions in terms of labels as
sda1...sdan is not related to the sequence of the drive's sector.
I guess Linux attributes the partition numbers according to the item
numbers in the partition table. "sda1" is not a property of the partition,
but rather a name handed out by the kernel.
The partition table formats do not enforce that partition items are
sorted by start address and do not overlap.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Ok, GPT is a hole in knowledge base.  Thanks for the heads up.
To be clear: Most Linux installation ISOs let EFI boot from an MBR
partition of type 0xef when presented on USB stick. Even if they
contain a GPT, it is invalid and the partition with the EFI FAT filesystem
is not marked by the proper type GUID. (Yada yada ...)

If you want to see an ISO with effective GPT then install packages
grub-pc, grub-efi-ia32-bin, grub-efi-amd64-bin, and run
grub-mkrescue -o test.iso /usr/bin/grub-mkrescue
(It wants a file as payload. So it gets the job to pack up itself.)

The resulting file test.iso is equipped with MBR, a single MBR partition
of type 0xee, and a valid GUID Partition Table.
Partition editor gdisk should be happy with it if it does not take
offense of the Apple Partition Map that is present, too.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Post by Thomas Schmitt
El Torito for BIOS and EFI. No MBR.
This is on their installation disks, when you install MSw it utilizes the
MBR
Somewhere in the UDF filesystem must be the bytes which it installs as
MBR boot program and/or the bytes which it installs as EFI System
Partition.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
So making images or transferring the image of the installation disk is
different than cloning a win installation, correct?
I have problems with the MS-Windows specific terms.
So i cannot answer this.
The image is not prepared to be put plainly on an USB stick and to then boot
like a contemporary Debian ISO is.
Post by Thomas Schmitt
Still this does not explain
to me what specifically does Rufus do that I couldn't replicate in linux.
I guess it unpacks the UDF filesystem to a partition on the USB stick
and installs the necessary MBR plus boot loader software.

You could completely erase a stick by doing
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX
until it reports i/o error. sdX would be the address of your USB stick.

Then let Rufus bring the MS-Windows ISO onto the stick. Afterwards unplug,
replug, and examine the freshly emerged partitioning of the stick.
Mount the partitions and inspect the content of their filesystems.
Compare with the content of the UDF filesystem in the "ISO".
Post by Thomas Schmitt
You would think that it would even make financial/economic sense, if they
all got together and agreed on one basic system for all, a simpler universal
bios chip and chipware,
Intel rather went the virtual way and defined the EFI operating system,
which is to be implemented by mainboard producers. The chips are supposed
to not matter, as long as the EFI implementation obeys the specs.

Obedience is limited. Some EFIs are too forgiving, others impose extra
demands like the need for some other partition with boot flag if EFI shall
boot from a MBR partition of type 0xef.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas
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