VirtualBox (VB) and Windows on Debian

[Tom Browder]

I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a Windows
host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.

I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a significant
issue when I used it before, and my use case is much different. Then I was
trying to show Windows users how they could run Linux, now I want to help
Windows folks to use a new programming language that was developed on *nix
systems.

Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run Windows
with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of Win 10 on a
CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)

Thank you my fellow Debian users!

Best regards,

-Tom

[Kent West]

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a
Windows host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.
I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a
significant issue when I used it before, and my use case is much
different. Then I was trying to show Windows users how they could run
Linux, now I want to help Windows folks to use a new
programming language that was developed on *nix systems.
Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of
Win 10 on a CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)
Thank you my fellow Debian users!
Best regards,
-Tom

I use "Virtual Machine Manager" now, instead of VirtualBox (mostly
because of the more-libre licensing; last I used VB, you had to use
their proprietary pay-for add-on for USB3 support, if I recall
correctly), but I used to use VB.

They both work fine to host Windows, with about 95% functionality (I've
mostly used Win10 Enterprise and Win11 Enterprise), with the 5% being
things like booting from a UEFI instead of Legacy Boot setup (which I
think may no longer be an issue), etc. This assumes, of course, that you
have plenty of RAM (32 GB seems good, with 16GB of that going to the
Windows host, assuming you're only running one VM at a time) and drive
space.

I've never done gaming or video-intensive stuff, so can't speak to that.

Since these apps (VB and Virt-Man) are both free (mostly, at least), try
it; the worst that'll happen (probably) is a waste of time.

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 12:06 Kent West <***@acu.edu> wrote:
...

Post by Kent West
I use "Virtual Machine Manager" now, instead of VirtualBox (mostly
because of the more-libre licensing; last I used VB, you had to use
their proprietary pay-for add-on for USB3 support, if I recall
correctly), but I used to use VB.

Thanks, Kent. Based on Jeremy's advice, I first tried VMWare WS Pro
on my Deb 11 host, but couldn't get past the links wanting me to log
in to Broadcom. Next I went to VB but had problems with installation
errors and complaints about needing some code chunks signed.

Reluctantly I went to KVM/QEMU where I had had a bad experience last
year. I deleted the two files I found there and found my Windows 10
Pro license and started from scratch.

Note this time I did a couple of things differently:

1. I did not try to install MacOS as I had before I tried Windows.

2. I gave the process 8 threads, 40 Gb of RAM, and 100 Gb of SSD space.

It installed like a charm and I look forward to exercising it.

Thanks all!

-Tom

[jeremy ardley]

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a
Windows host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.
I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a significant
issue when I used it before, and my use case is much different. Then I
was trying to show Windows users how they could run Linux, now I want to
help Windows folks to use a new programming language that was developed
on *nix systems.
Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of
Win 10 on a CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)
Thank you my fellow Debian users!
Best regards,
-Tom

VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.

There are alternatives that include:

- KVM/QEMU

- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)

In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.

Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 09:42 jeremy ardley <***@gmail.com> wrote:



Post by jeremy ardley
VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.
- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.

Thanks, Jeremy!

-Tom

[Jean-François Bachelet]

Post by jeremy ardley
VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.

why ?

I use it daily and it works well on my debian 12...

Post by jeremy ardley
- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)

cool ! will try it too :)

Post by jeremy ardley
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.
Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

Regards,
Jeff

[jeremy ardley]

Since you do not object to the use of current Windows, i would be
surprised, if it would be impossible to run it in vbox. One thing
though: Back in the days, i was using commodity hardware, limiting the
things, i could do. My current box has plenty of RAM, processing power
and disk space, so even running several VMs simultaneously doesnt cause
any headache.

I have (un)fortunately spent a lot of time this year installing and
operating VMs of many varieties. Most were on AWS, Azure, VMWare
Workstation Pro and some on KVM/QEMU

The basic distinction between windows and linux as a client is the
amount of virtual disk required. A basic windows install uses 60Gb,
though perhaps 40 will do? Windows will run on 1GB RAM but 2-4 GB is
preferred.

A basic linux LAMP server will fit on 10GB disk and can run on 1GB ram
with a swap file.

Out of interest I have installed Windows XP under VirtualBox. It runs
really fast compared to the later bloatware versions of Windows.

[Stanislav Vlasov]

Post by jeremy ardley
A basic linux LAMP server will fit on 10GB disk and can run on 1GB ram
with a swap file.

Even lower and without swap for basic usage with optimized setup
(mostly --no-install-recommends)
At my work (small hosting provider) we sell vds from 512M RAM (1G
recommends) and for low load its work fine.
Base system with LAMP use lower than 2G, other space for user data.

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 01:45 jeremy ardley <***@gmail.com> wrote:
...

I appreciate your and others views on the Windows version I'm using. I am
using
10 only because it's the only one I still have a key for, and I was able to
find a downloadable iso file.

I would happily use an older Windows if it has the capability to build the
libraries
needed to run Rakudo. A brief search shows that Win 7 might work, and legit
versions are available. But are legit isos around for ease of installation?

Thanks.

-Tom

[Tom Browder]

Post by Tom Browder
...
I appreciate your and others views on the Windows version I'm using. I am
using
10 only because it's the only one I still have a key for, and I was able
to find a downloadable iso file.

I see <https://digitalproductkey.com> offers Win 7 Pro key and link to
ISO. Anyone use them?

-Tom

[s***@swampdog.co.uk]

[snip

Post by jeremy ardley
Out of interest I have installed Windows XP under VirtualBox. It runs
really fast compared to the later bloatware versions of Windows.

I installed XP (SP3) under KVM/QEMU (IDE disk). I wanted to install Win7 but
discovered my Win7 was an upgrade disk. I'd lost the XP key. Fortunately
copious amount of beer was involved else I'd never have thought of actually
phoning the registration helpline. It worked. This was in the UK, Jan 2nd
2023!

I just fired it up. It does run fast. I never progressed with it as the reason
to have Win7 went away.

[Jeffrey Walton]

Post by jeremy ardley

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a
Windows host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.
I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a significant
issue when I used it before, and my use case is much different. Then I
was trying to show Windows users how they could run Linux, now I want to
help Windows folks to use a new programming language that was developed
on *nix systems.
Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of
Win 10 on a CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)
Thank you my fellow Debian users!

VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.
- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.
Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

Add a "mee too" for KVM/QEMU/libvirt. The components are managed by
the kernel, so there are usually no technical problems, like unsigned
modules. Virt Manager takes a little getting used to, but everything
you need is there.

The only downside to KVM/QEMU/libvirt is networking in some cases.
Configuring a VM to use your local DHCP server is a pain because you
have to setup and configure the bridging yourself. And the
documentation to do it does not exist.

Jeff

[s***@swampdog.co.uk]

Post by Jeffrey Walton

Post by jeremy ardley

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a
Windows host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.
I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a significant
issue when I used it before, and my use case is much different. Then I
was trying to show Windows users how they could run Linux, now I want to
help Windows folks to use a new programming language that was developed
on *nix systems.
Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of
Win 10 on a CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)
Thank you my fellow Debian users!

VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.
- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.
Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

Add a "mee too" for KVM/QEMU/libvirt. The components are managed by
the kernel, so there are usually no technical problems, like unsigned
modules. Virt Manager takes a little getting used to, but everything
you need is there.
The only downside to KVM/QEMU/libvirt is networking in some cases.
Configuring a VM to use your local DHCP server is a pain because you
have to setup and configure the bridging yourself. And the
documentation to do it does not exist.

Out of interest, how is one supposed to do it now? I set mine up ages ago via
/etc/network/interfaces - eg..

auto br0
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports enp4s0
bridge_stp off
bridge_fd 0
bridge_maxwait 0

..but I have no idea how to do it now. Manpage says 'brctl' is obsolete and
points to 'bridge' which I've never used.

[George at Clug]

Post by s***@swampdog.co.uk

Post by Jeffrey Walton

Post by jeremy ardley

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for a
Windows host
to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to support the Raku
language.
I now have lots of memory and disk space which was always a significant
issue when I used it before, and my use case is much different. Then I
was trying to show Windows users how they could run Linux, now I want to
help Windows folks to use a new programming language that was developed
on *nix systems.
Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results? (Note I still have a legal copy of
Win 10 on a CD as well as a portable DVD player with a USB connector.)
Thank you my fellow Debian users!

VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.
- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.
Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

Add a "mee too" for KVM/QEMU/libvirt. The components are managed by
the kernel, so there are usually no technical problems, like unsigned
modules. Virt Manager takes a little getting used to, but everything
you need is there.
The only downside to KVM/QEMU/libvirt is networking in some cases.
Configuring a VM to use your local DHCP server is a pain because you
have to setup and configure the bridging yourself. And the
documentation to do it does not exist.

Out of interest, how is one supposed to do it now? I set mine up ages ago via
/etc/network/interfaces - eg..
auto br0
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports enp4s0
bridge_stp off
bridge_fd 0
bridge_maxwait 0
..but I have no idea how to do it now. Manpage says 'brctl' is obsolete and
points to 'bridge' which I've never used.

After I uninstalled Network Manager, I found this page very useful for setting up a bridge:

https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections#Manual_bridge_setup

Configuring bridging in /etc/network/interfaces

If you like static IP’s, then you can just add the static IP options under the br0 interface setup. For example:

# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo br0
iface lo inet loopback

# Set up interfaces manually, avoiding conflicts with, e.g., network manager
iface eth0 inet manual

iface eth1 inet manual

# Bridge setup
iface br0 inet static
bridge_ports eth0 eth1
address 192.168.1.2
broadcast 192.168.1.255
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.1.1


One day I would like to learn all that this page explains, but I think the above is easier:

https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#Bridging
Bridging

I keep trying to convince myself that I should learn and then use systemd-networkd :

https://wiki.debian.org/SystemdNetworkd
bridging over a bond

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd-networkd

https://major.io/p/creating-a-bridge-for-virtual-machines-using-systemd-networkd/
Creating a bridge for virtual machines using systemd-networkd
3.1 Network bridge with DHCP

Yet another way (just how many network configuration systems does Linux have?)

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_bridge

I guess you had found these web pages or ones like them yourself, but in case you had not, hope they are a help?

I use the first example that uses "/etc/network/interfaces" which appears to work for servers when Network Manager is not installed but on systems that have Network Manager I have experience some delay issues with networking when starting up the computer. And I gave up on setting up Bridges on Wireless network interfaces as I think each wireless connection is treated as a new network interface.

George.

[Jeffrey Walton]

Post by s***@swampdog.co.uk

Post by Jeffrey Walton

Post by jeremy ardley

[...]

- KVM/QEMU
- VMWare Workstation Pro (which is now free for private use)
In my experience KVM/QEMU is fairly stable. The VMWare product not so much.
Given everything is virtual you can easily try all options in an hour or
two.

Add a "mee too" for KVM/QEMU/libvirt. The components are managed by
the kernel, so there are usually no technical problems, like unsigned
modules. Virt Manager takes a little getting used to, but everything
you need is there.
The only downside to KVM/QEMU/libvirt is networking in some cases.
Configuring a VM to use your local DHCP server is a pain because you
have to setup and configure the bridging yourself. And the
documentation to do it does not exist.

Out of interest, how is one supposed to do it now? I set mine up ages ago via
/etc/network/interfaces - eg..
auto br0
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports enp4s0
bridge_stp off
bridge_fd 0
bridge_maxwait 0
..but I have no idea how to do it now. Manpage says 'brctl' is obsolete and
points to 'bridge' which I've never used.

Yeah, I have an old server that was setup using the old commands, like
brctl. It has been so long I don't recall the steps I used to
configure it.

For a modern install on Debian with Systemd and Network Manager (and
not systemd-network), here are the rough steps I follow.

1. Ignore anything from `sudo -E virsh net-edit default`. You don't
use the default NAT. You use virbr0 instead.

2. Install nmtui.

3. `sudo nmtui`, then 'Edit a connection." Select bridge virbr0.

* Under slaves, add Ethernet Connection 1. Check Automatically
Connect and Available to All Users.

* Under IPv4, select Automatic. Remove addresses and friends.

* Under IPv6, select Disabled. I don't run IPv6 internally.

4. Reboot the machine.

5. After reboot and login, you should see ethernet UP, vbridge UP, and
the host has a DHCP address via the bridge.

$ ip link show
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT
group default qlen 1000
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
2: enp0s20f0u3c2: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel mast
er virbr0 state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
link/ether 20:7b:d2:8c:55:d4 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
3: wlo1: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state DOWN m
ode DORMANT group default qlen 1000
link/ether 9a:28:0e:bd:f4:ee brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff permaddr 00:41:0e:67:0e:7
b
altname wlp87s0
4: virbr0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP mod
e DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
link/ether 20:7b:d2:8c:55:d4 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff

And:

$ ip addr
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group defaul
t qlen 1000
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp0s20f0u3c2: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel mast
er virbr0 state UP group default qlen 1000
link/ether 20:7b:d2:8c:55:d4 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
3: wlo1: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state DOWN g
roup default qlen 1000
link/ether 9e:8e:8a:6f:35:5e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff permaddr 00:41:0e:67:0e:7
b
altname wlp87s0
4: virbr0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP gro
up default qlen 1000
link/ether 20:7b:d2:8c:55:d4 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
inet 172.16.2.15/12 brd 172.31.255.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute vi
rbr0
valid_lft 6293sec preferred_lft 6293sec

6. In Virtual Machine Manager, select a VM, select NIC, choose Bridge
device... and select virbr0.

7. Start the VM. The VM will get an IP address from your local DHCP server.

You might find these commands useful if you don't (yet) have a bridge:
<https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_bridge> and maybe this
discussion: <https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=253232>.

Jeff

[c***@surfnaked.ca]

Post by Tom Browder

Post by Tom Browder
I haven't looked at VB in a long time, but I have a real need for
a Windows host to port some Linux libraries to Windows in order to
support the Raku language.

Thus my question is: Has anyone use a recent version of VB to run
Windows with satisfactory results?

<waves hand> I use it every day. Mind you, I'm running XP,
but I do Windows program development on it and it runs just
fine. I give it 512MB of memory, and programs run on it at
least as fast as on a native Windows box.

Post by Tom Browder
VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.

Huh? Nobody told that to the two machines on which I'm
running VirtualBox version 7.0.14 under Debian 12.4.
Maybe it's a grandfathering thing, where I slipped the
Bookworm upgrade into an existing box - but I've seen
no problems whatsoever.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | the first society that wouldn't
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | save itself because it wasn't
/ \ if you read it the right way. | cost-effective. -- Kurt
Vonnegut

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 3:06 PM <***@surfnaked.ca> wrote:
...

Post by c***@surfnaked.ca
<waves hand> I use it every day. Mind you, I'm running XP,
but I do Windows program development on it and it runs just
fine. I give it 512MB of memory, and programs run on it at
least as fast as on a native Windows box.

Thanks, but I now have a good solution.

-Tom

[George at Clug]

Post by jeremy ardley
VirtualBox is not supported on Debian 12.

OMG, that came as a shock to me!
... because i am relying on vbox since more than a decade now. (It began
on Windows Vista, next Ubuntu was my OS, and Windows kept running in a
VM. Next i switched to debian (OS) and Windows 7 in a VM, and still i am
using many of them, while i still did not yet finish my upgrade to stable.
https://itslinuxguide.com/install-virtualbox-debian/
which explained some errors and how to work around them. Great relief,
as there is no need to change my ways. :-)
But, when it comes to Windows: i was closely watching the development of
Win10 and checking the prereleases, but found too many things, i did not
like.

+1
I agree with you.

All the vbox-problems were solvable (even then), but i got in
touch with sysadmins, who decided to never recommend Win10 to their
bosses due to the spying on their companies, that could not be turned
off.

+1
I agree but I have not find anyone other than myself who cares. (so glad to learn that some other people also recognise the issue and do care too, thank you !)

That is why i am on Win7 still (i know, its unsupported), but it
does work nicely still (in a VM ofc.)
Since you do not object to the use of current Windows, i would be
surprised, if it would be impossible to run it in vbox. One thing
though: Back in the days, i was using commodity hardware, limiting the
things, i could do. My current box has plenty of RAM, processing power
and disk space, so even running several VMs simultaneously doesnt cause
any headache.
Just my "worthless" experience... ;-)
DdB