no more sound after upgrade (trixie/sid)

[Lucio Crusca]

My notebook has Trixie for most packages, then some from Bookworm and a
few form Sid.

Pipewire used to output sound just fine until yesterday, when I upgraded
the whole system via aptitude and rebooted.

Until yesterday I also had rc-buggy in my sources-list, but then I
removed it (before the upgrade) because of some unresolvable dependencies.

Today Alsa lists my integrated analog audio device:

$ aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC298 Analog [ALC298 Analog]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 7: HDMI 1 [HDMI 1]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 8: HDMI 2 [HDMI 2]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

but then alsamixer doesn't find it:

$ alsamixer
the menu only shows "Card: PipeWire \n Chip: PipeWire ..." and a
message: "This sound device does not have any controls"

Pipewire and `wpctl status` seem to recognize the device (but not the
analog sink):

$ pw-cli list-objects
[...]
id 44, type PipeWire:Interface:Device/3
object.serial = "44"
factory.id = "14"
client.id = "41"
device.api = "alsa"
device.description = "Audio interno"
device.name = "alsa_card.pci-0000_00_1f.3"
device.nick = "HDA Intel PCH"
media.class = "Audio/Device"

$ wpctl status
PipeWire 'pipewire-0' [1.0.6, ***@t470, cookie:1325159986]
└─ Clients:
[...]
Audio
├─ Devices:
│ 44. Audio interno [alsa]
│
├─ Sinks:
│ 46. Audio interno Digital Stereo (HDMI) [vol: 1.00]
│
├─ Sources:
[...]

The XFCE audio mixer only shows the HDMI output (not connected), but
when I run it, I can hear a little noise in my analog headphones, which
is the same noise I used to hear when I ran any application that output
sound and it initialized the output sound device until yesterday.

Also `pactl list sinks' only shows the HDMI output.

Google Chrome seems to happily play YouTube videos, except no sound ever
comes out (maybe it is routing audio to the disconnected HDMI output?).

pipewire-pulse 1.0.6-1 is installed,
/etc/pipewire/media-session.d/with-pulseaudio exists and wireplumber is
running.

Aplay fails to play a simple wav:

$ aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav
Playing WAVE '/usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav' : Signed 16 bit
Little Endian, Rate 48000 Hz, Mono
aplay: set_params:1456: Unable to install hw params:
[...]

And I've run out of ideas.

[Mindaugas]

Post by Lucio Crusca
My notebook has Trixie for most packages, then some from Bookworm and a
few form Sid.
Pipewire used to output sound just fine until yesterday, when I upgraded
the whole system via aptitude and rebooted.
Until yesterday I also had rc-buggy in my sources-list, but then I
removed it (before the upgrade) because of some unresolvable
dependencies.
$ aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC298 Analog [ALC298 Analog]
   Subdevices: 1/1
   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
   Subdevices: 1/1
   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 7: HDMI 1 [HDMI 1]
   Subdevices: 1/1
   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 8: HDMI 2 [HDMI 2]
   Subdevices: 1/1
   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
$ alsamixer
the menu only shows "Card: PipeWire \n Chip: PipeWire ..." and a
message: "This sound device does not have any controls"
Pipewire and `wpctl status` seem to recognize the device (but not the
$ pw-cli list-objects
[...]
        id 44, type PipeWire:Interface:Device/3
                object.serial = "44"
                factory.id = "14"
                client.id = "41"
                device.api = "alsa"
                device.description = "Audio interno"
                device.name = "alsa_card.pci-0000_00_1f.3"
                device.nick = "HDA Intel PCH"
                media.class = "Audio/Device"
$ wpctl status
[...]
Audio
  │      44. Audio interno                       [alsa]
  │
  │      46. Audio interno Digital Stereo (HDMI) [vol: 1.00]
  │
[...]
The XFCE audio mixer only shows the HDMI output (not connected), but
when I run it, I can hear a little noise in my analog headphones, which
is the same noise I used to hear when I ran any application that output
sound and it initialized the output sound device until yesterday.
Also `pactl list sinks' only shows the HDMI output.
Google Chrome seems to happily play YouTube videos, except no sound ever
comes out (maybe it is routing audio to the disconnected HDMI
output?).
pipewire-pulse 1.0.6-1 is installed,
/etc/pipewire/media-session.d/with-pulseaudio exists and wireplumber is
running.
$ aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav
Playing WAVE '/usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav' : Signed 16 bit
Little Endian, Rate 48000 Hz, Mono
[...]
And I've run out of ideas.

Hello.
Don't make a FrankenDebian. Oh, I'm sorry. Your system has already
become like this.

P.S.
The reason things can break is because the software packaged for one
Debian release is built to be compatible with the rest of the software
for that release.

[Lucio Crusca]

Post by Mindaugas
Hello.
Don't make a FrankenDebian. Oh, I'm sorry. Your system has already
become like this.
P.S.
The reason things can break is because the software packaged for one
Debian release is built to be compatible with the rest of the software
for that release.

This is the utmost futile answer I ever received in 22 years of my
"FrankenDebian", but thanks for your time nevertheless.

Besides it is also a misleading answer: testing is not a complete
distro, in that you *need* to add stable and/or sid in order to actually
use it, and guess what? A lot of people out there actually do that. Oh,
even APT pinning [1] exists just for that.

Anyway, if you ever happen to find something like a useful answer,
you're welcolme to post it here. Thanks in advance.

[1]: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration

[Frank]

Post by Lucio Crusca
Besides it is also a misleading answer: testing is not a complete
distro, in that you *need* to add stable and/or sid in order to actually
use it

Nonsense.

I've been running a 'pure' testing since 2008. No sid or stable in sight.

Please don't spread misinformation.

[Lucio Crusca]

Post by Frank
I've been running a 'pure' testing since 2008. No sid or stable in sight.

You have a point, I should have specified better what I meant.

I tried running pure Debian testing too, but, in my case, given the way
I use my system, I soon realized that testing wasn't enough for me and I
found that APT pinning was there just for strange peolple like me who
need some bit more than what a pure Debian testing has to offer.

So, in my case a pure Debian testing is not enough and it seems I'm not
alone, since someone out there invented APT pinning and someone even
uses it.

Post by Frank
testing is not a complete distro, in that you *need* to add stable
and/or sid in order to actually use it

Let's rephrase that:

Sometimes it happens some packages get automatically removed from Debian
testing (for example because of rc-bugs), so if you ever need one of
those packages that have been removed, you can only wait for it to be
added back, or mix stable/unstable (or install from upstream, but that's
even worse).

In other words, assuming "completeness" means having all the packaged
software that others Debian flavors have, sometimes it happens Debian
testing isn't complete. It happened to me in the past, so I mixed in
stable and sid.

[Michael Kjörling]

Post by Lucio Crusca
Sometimes it happens some packages get automatically removed from Debian
testing (for example because of rc-bugs), so if you ever need one of those
packages that have been removed, you can only wait for it to be added back,
or mix stable/unstable (or install from upstream, but that's even worse).

_Or_ you can see that an apt-get dist-upgrade / apt full-upgrade wants
to remove a package that you need, and pin the package you need
_before_ proceeding with the upgrade so as to prevent the removal of
that package, and thereby also likely causing some other packages to
be held back; and then somehow ensure that you will revisit the pin
later.

Quite a few people run Debian testing. Some even as a daily driver.
That's fine. But if you do, you need to keep in mind that it _is_
"testing". You can't expect the same level of stability as with the
stable distribution. And you definitely need to pay close attention to
what every upgrade wants to do to your system _especially_ in terms of
removals.

Mixing packages from testing and stable is no more guaranteed to work
than mixing packages from, say, bullseye and bookworm; in that it
might work, or it might not, and that the outcome will very much
depend on the specifics of the packages involved and what they use
each other for. And when it doesn't work, the failure modes aren't
necessarily going to be at all obvious.

Just because apt pinning can be wrangled into creating a system with a
mix of bookworm, trixie and sid package versions doesn't mean that
using it to do that is a good idea, or that the resulting system will
perform as expected. Apt pinning is a power tool that requires
understanding of the consequences of the results.

[Lucio Crusca]

_Or_ you can see that [...] a power tool that requires
understanding of the consequences of the results.

I absolutely agree with you, but I feel like the point here (where
"$here" == "in my topic") should a bit of a different one: granted, my
system is "strange", or call it whatever you like, but, given this
situation, and given that no one can really tell if the strangeness (APT
pinning) is really the cause of my problem, does anybody have any
suggestions for me that can help me solve the problem?

And no, "reinstall from scratch and forget APT pinning" is not the
solution I'm looking for: I already know I could do that, but I'm more
interested in understanding what went wrong. I can even live without
sound while I try to understand that.

In other words, assuming your system were to behave like mine, what
would you do to understand why it detects the audio device, but not the
analog output sink?

[Frank]

Post by Michael Kjörling
Quite a few people run Debian testing. Some even as a daily driver.
That's fine. But if you do, you need to keep in mind that it _is_
"testing". You can't expect the same level of stability as with the
stable distribution. And you definitely need to pay close attention to
what every upgrade wants to do to your system _especially_ in terms of
removals.

Absolutely. If something like that threatens to happen, I usually put
the offending package on hold and check what issues that causes. That
has worked well for me so far. The recent t64 switch period was...
interesting.

[Mindaugas]

Post by Lucio Crusca

Post by Mindaugas
Hello.
Don't make a FrankenDebian. Oh, I'm sorry. Your system has already
become like this.
P.S.
The reason things can break is because the software packaged for one
Debian release is built to be compatible with the rest of the software
for that release.

This is the utmost futile answer I ever received in 22 years of my
"FrankenDebian", but thanks for your time nevertheless.
Besides it is also a misleading answer: testing is not a complete
distro, in that you *need* to add stable and/or sid in order to actually
use it, and guess what? A lot of people out there actually do that. Oh,
even APT pinning [1] exists just for that.
Anyway, if you ever happen to find something like a useful answer,
you're welcolme to post it here. Thanks in advance.
[1]:  https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration

Yes, people do. It's their systems. But then there is no need to cry
and complain that something is not working or is not working properly.
Personally, I've never had any problems with sound on Debian. Maybe
because I don't do the kind of scenarios you do (apt pinning, mixing
packages from stable, testing and unstable etc.)

[Lucio Crusca]

Post by Mindaugas
Yes, people do. It's their systems.

Just like my system is mine.

Post by Mindaugas
But then there is no need to cry
and complain that something is not working or is not working properly.

Cry and complain? I've only asked for help, giving all the info I have
about my system. If you happen to know the solution, then you are
welcome to share it. All the rest is blah blah blah.

Post by Mindaugas
Personally, I've never had any problems with sound on Debian. Maybe
because I don't do the kind of scenarios you do (apt pinning, mixing
packages from stable, testing and unstable etc.)

Correct: Maybe. But, who knows?

[Kamil Jońca]

Mindaugas <***@gmail.com> writes:

[..]

Post by Mindaugas
Yes, people do. It's their systems. But then there is no need to cry
and complain that something is not working or is not working properly.
Personally, I've never had any problems with sound on Debian. Maybe

You were lucky.
About 2 years ago I got new laptop. And I have had problems, as kernel
module did not recognise some auxiliary device. As a resule there were
no sound in speakers. Yes this was resolved later.

KJ

[Lucio Crusca]

In the end, the problem had nothing to do with APT pinning, mixing
Debian flavors, nor anything else mentioned in the previous messages.

I've just noticed that in my XFCE mixer there is a tab "Configuration",
where you can set the audio profile. I don't even know what an audio
profile is supposed to do, but somehow it was set to HDMI stereo digital
output (I assume it happened somewhat automatically during last
upgrade). I just switched it back to analog and I got my analog sound back.