Strange behavior of ifupdown package

[MailGuard01]

Hi all,

I am trying to complete the network configuration on Debian 12 using the default
installed `ifupdown` package. I have noticed some confusing behavior with
`ifupdown` while following the manual pages.

Specifically, when I place `iface eno1 inet6 auto` with `privext 2` after `iface
inet eno1 dhcp` as instructed by the manual, the behavior becomes unpredictable.
Typically, the `privext` setting does not work as expected and has no effect
when I initially boot into Debian 12 every time, even though the value of
`/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eno1/use_tempaddr` is correctly set to 2. No temporary
IPv6 address is assigned to the interface.

However, if I restart the networking service using `systemctl restart
networking`, everything starts working correctly, and the temporary IPv6 address
is assigned and displayed. Strangely, after multiple reboot of my Debian 12 PC,
the temporary address occasionally appears without manually restarting the
networking service. The behavior seems unstable and inconsistent.

When I accidentally placed `iface eno1 inet6 auto` with `privext 2` before
`iface inet eno1 dhcp`, everything worked without any problem. All settings
correctly applied, and there was no need to manually restart the networking
service.

I have searched online but found nothing relevant, as if this is an isolated
case. The manual also does not mention this behavior. I can reproduce this
consistently from Debian 11 to Debian testing/unstable.

Is this behavior expected / considered a feature? Or is it an isolated case?
Should I report this as a bug, and if so, where should I do that?

Additionally, it would be helpful to mention this behavior in the manual pages
if it's expected, perhaps in a known limitations section. It took me days to
solve this issue, and I was stumble upon the solution by sheer luck.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Best regards.

PS: I am not sure that I subscribed to the mailing list correctly as this is my
first time using one. Please forgive me if I did anything wrong. :>

Here are the full configuration I mentioned before. The default lo section is
omitted.

# privext will not work
allow-hotplug eno1
iface eno1 inet dhcp
iface eno1 inet6 auto
privext 2
# =====================

# privext works
allow-hotplug eno1
iface eno1 inet6 auto
privext 2
iface eno1 inet dhcp

[Ian Molton]

Hi.

Sorry, i cant help with your specific problem.

Just didn't want you to feel alone...

I don't know whats becoming of Debian these days.

Users need to stick together,  but the traffic stats for these lists
paint a bleak picture.

The attitude these days seems to be that 'if its not in bugzilla, no one
cares'

Seems like the Debian project is forgetting that it is a social
endeavour, not a (increasingly small) handful of Devs vanity project...

[Michel Verdier]

Post by Ian Molton
The attitude these days seems to be that 'if its not in bugzilla, no one
cares'
Seems like the Debian project is forgetting that it is a social endeavour, not
a (increasingly small) handful of Devs vanity project...

I largely disagree with that. I was helped and try to help the same way
since 30 years :)

[Ian Molton]

Michael, that was not a personal attack. I am in no doubt that you
personally try to help.

The statistics for this list, however, are public record. And they are
indeed of concern.

Like so many open source projects, Debian is clearly showing a loss of
community, and whilst it continues to be a solid pillar of the internet
generally, it appears to be increasingly maintained by a smaller
(proportionally) group as time goes by, with less community engagement.

[David]

Post by Ian Molton
Michael, that was not a personal attack. I am in no doubt that you
personally try to help.
The statistics for this list, however, are public record. And they are
indeed of concern.
Like so many open source projects, Debian is clearly showing a loss of
community, and whilst it continues to be a solid pillar of the
internet
generally, it appears to be increasingly maintained by a smaller
(proportionally) group as time goes by, with less community
engagement.

What you say makes perfect sense.
I have already argued along this line.
There are some here who fail to understand that this kind of project is
different, and not to be `organised' along conventional lines.
It is a *community* project, and gains its vitality from the vitality
of that community.
The community has lost its vitality, so the project suffers.
You can't split the one aspect from the other.

At one time, this list literally raged!
There were discussions on all sorts of things, far beyond Debian, but
it was a vibrant community. And the project benefited from that
vibrancy.

Now, it is politically correct.
The difference is observable.
That difference is a yawning gulf.
But there are those who insist this is the way forward, in a situation
where the OpenBSD list has more life to it.
Let it go.
Enjoy what we have while it lasts.
Cheers!

[Michel Verdier]

Michael, that was not a personal attack. I am in no doubt that you personally
try to help.

And *was helped*. So I am not alone :)

The statistics for this list, however, are public record. And they are indeed
of concern.

Can you give the statistics which corroborate this ?

[Ian Molton]

Hi,

As I said - the mailing list stats. Public record.

Heres a picture.

Loading Image...

An alarming decline, with a multitude of reasons.

But lack of community will be the one that ends that graph. Be in no
doubt.

[Michel Verdier]

Post by Ian Molton
https://lists.debian.org/stats/debian-user.png
An alarming decline, with a multitude of reasons.
But lack of community will be the one that ends that graph. Be in no doubt.

Members remains around 3000 so I don't see a decline for this.
Messages decline but I think we can't conclude clearly with those
statistics only. There is multiple channels for support apart mailing
lists. And is this a decline of community or better quality, easier use,
increased users skills ?
These statistics could raise your mood :)
https://wiki.debian.org/Statistics
with perhaps Member count: https://github.com/jwilk/dd-num-graph

[Ian Molton]

Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join
it...

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join it...

Sadly, the Debian project is not willing to move with the times and
bless a modern web support community such as Discourse (a Stack
Overflow or AskUbuntu-like interface, for those who are unaware).

They tried a couple of times to launch such a thing but without any
official support and very little advertising, no one used it and the
efforts faltered each time. Without a concerted effort to drive user
support to such a place, I don't think it's worth trying again.

There is a Debian web forum which is not official and I wouldn't
recommend it.

So we soldier on with this mailing list which has a dwindling appeal
just because email itself has a dwindling appeal, as well as all of
the list's other deficiencies as a support venue. This is not a
popular view here as there are a small number of prolific posters
here who enjoy holding court. Overall though, I don't think users
want to use email for support.

In summary I think the answer to your question is "the support
venues of other distributions".

If not wanting to change distribution you could try posting
questions on ServerFault or Unix&Linux Stack Exchange.

If you're specifically wanting to interact with Debian developers
though, as previously mentioned you really have to engage with the
Debian bug tracking system.

Thanks,
Andy

[Michael Grant]

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join it...

Sadly, the Debian project is not willing to move with the times and
bless a modern web support community such as Discourse (a Stack
Overflow or AskUbuntu-like interface, for those who are unaware).
...

Here's my thoughts on this. Stackoverflow has a nice presentation as
do many of these web forums. It's pretty easy to use and one can
format the posts nicely and all. I get it. The modern world has
moved on from email lists like this.

On the other hand, I never read web forums, I only really search for
things in a search engine and then end up on a forum with possible
answers. I have no clue how people actually read them and keep up
were there are so many hundreds or thousands of forums to keep up with
and so many posts per hour. At least with a mailing list, I can get
it in my inbox and look at the subject lines and summarily delete the
threads I'm not or no longer interested in. It forces me to deal with
it. Hence I'm on a very limited number of lists like this.

Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with keeping
up with a forum like that. It seems like it means leaving a bunch of
tabs open in a browser all the time, perhaps on a laptop, desktop and
phone and constantly checking out if there's new messages. It seems
insane. I'd just end up letting things build up and not check
daily. This model does not work for me. And getting all forum posts
in email becomes overwhelming. It's not like this list, it's often
like 10x more when people post micro-follups like a back and forth
chat.

At one time I thought RSS feeds might be the answer but this seem to
be dead, or maybe they're not dead but nothing mainstream uses them
anymore. I really don't have a great solution.

Anyway, if this list moved to a forum, what you could do is cross post
links to the forum for say a year to nudge people to use it. That
might finally push things over.

If this moves to a forum, it would suck if nobody answers questions
there or the responses are low quality. I'm totally grateful for all
the responses I've gotten from folks on this list over the years and
it would suck for me big to post stuff in a forum and get a load of
crap responses just because people are trying to push up their score,
or get no responses at all.

So whatever the future is, I hope someone thinks some of these
things. I'm all for something better if it is all around better and
that means the content within it, not just the fancy formatting.

Michael Grant

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

I never read web forums, I only really search for things in a
search engine and then end up on a forum with possible answers.

The fact is that millions of tech questions are asked and answered
on Stack-like sites, probably more than on all mailing lists at this
point. When you search the web for an answer there's a good chance
you'll end up on one of these sites long before you will find an
archived mailing list posting. So the concept is proven to work for
user support in my opinion.

Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with keeping
up with a forum like that.

I'm not young and I don't try to keep up. There are plenty of people
looking to provide answers, especially because of the Internet
Points they amass for having their answers upvoted and selected as
the solution.

On these typical sites you can set certain tags that you are
interested in, and then view a list of questions that match those
tags. Optionally only view ones with no answers yet. I just dip in
to that from time to time.

On slightly more discussion-focussed Discourse forums I set it into
mailing list mode and get a copy of all posts as email. In the rare
case that I feel like I have something to contribute to a particular
post then I click the link at the bottom of the email to view it in
its web interface to compose my reply. I understand it is possible
to reply to such things by email too, but I actually do appreciate
the editing facilities (e.g. markdown) of the web site.

But this is largely moot as I don't expect Debian support will
move away from mailing lists any time soon.

tabs open in a browser all the time, perhaps on a laptop, desktop
and phone and constantly checking out if there's new messages. It
seems insane. I'd just end up letting things build up and not
check daily. This model does not work for me.

Nor me.

getting all forum posts
in email becomes overwhelming. It's not like this list, it's often
like 10x more when people post micro-follups like a back and forth
chat.

I don't find it a problem especially when compared to the ridiculous
threads that happen here.

Another thing to consider is that a strictly support-focussed web
site like a Stack site actively penalises off-topic chatter. That's
actually when I think is one of the best things about them when
compared to a mailing list. On here it's down to whoever can post
their nonsense the most often and most stridently, which is seen
every week from the same small group.

if this list moved to a forum,

I advise against using this set of words because there is no real
chance of it happening yet it is enough to trigger some people who
are extremely devoted to mailings lists explaining at length why
that will be awful. For an academic discussion about something that
isn't going to happen.

what you could do is cross post links to the forum for say a year
to nudge people to use it. That might finally push things over.

Doesn't really seem feasible. Bad as this place is, I wouldn't want
to see links to posts on forums.debian.net posted here and there
would be no point posting list archive links to a web site that the
person asking the question isn't even on.

I don't see any chance of success without Debian being willing to
prominently list such a site on its official web page as an official
place to get support.

it would suck for me big to post stuff in a forum and get a load of
crap responses just because people are trying to push up their score,
or get no responses at all.

Bad answers on Stack sites tend to lose people Internet Points and
eventually get hidden. It's why useful answers appear more often in web
searches.

Whereas on this list, volume tends to win by attrition.

Thanks,
Andy

[Patrick Wiseman]

Post by Michael Grant

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Post by Ian Molton
Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join

it...

Post by Andy Smith
Sadly, the Debian project is not willing to move with the times and
bless a modern web support community such as Discourse (a Stack
Overflow or AskUbuntu-like interface, for those who are unaware).
...

Here's my thoughts on this. Stackoverflow has a nice presentation as
do many of these web forums. It's pretty easy to use and one can
format the posts nicely and all. I get it. The modern world has
moved on from email lists like this.
On the other hand, I never read web forums, I only really search for
things in a search engine and then end up on a forum with possible
answers. I have no clue how people actually read them and keep up
were there are so many hundreds or thousands of forums to keep up with
and so many posts per hour. At least with a mailing list, I can get
it in my inbox and look at the subject lines and summarily delete the
threads I'm not or no longer interested in. It forces me to deal with
it. Hence I'm on a very limited number of lists like this.
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with keeping
up with a forum like that. It seems like it means leaving a bunch of
tabs open in a browser all the time, perhaps on a laptop, desktop and
phone and constantly checking out if there's new messages. It seems
insane. I'd just end up letting things build up and not check
daily. This model does not work for me. And getting all forum posts
in email becomes overwhelming. It's not like this list, it's often
like 10x more when people post micro-follups like a back and forth
chat.
At one time I thought RSS feeds might be the answer but this seem to
be dead, or maybe they're not dead but nothing mainstream uses them
anymore. I really don't have a great solution.
Anyway, if this list moved to a forum, what you could do is cross post
links to the forum for say a year to nudge people to use it. That
might finally push things over.
If this moves to a forum, it would suck if nobody answers questions
there or the responses are low quality. I'm totally grateful for all
the responses I've gotten from folks on this list over the years and
it would suck for me big to post stuff in a forum and get a load of
crap responses just because people are trying to push up their score,
or get no responses at all.
So whatever the future is, I hope someone thinks some of these
things. I'm all for something better if it is all around better and
that means the content within it, not just the fancy formatting.
Michael Grant

I mostly lurk here but I like this forum/format and hope Debian sticks with
it. IMO Discord pretty much sucks. There's a r/debian subreddit which looks
quite active and I've found other subreddits helpful.

Patrick

[Nate Bargmann]

Post by Patrick Wiseman
I mostly lurk here but I like this forum/format and hope Debian sticks with
it. IMO Discord pretty much sucks. There's a r/debian subreddit which looks
quite active and I've found other subreddits helpful.

Discourse and Discord are two different technologies, AIUI. I much
prefer this style of email list to Discourse which seems like its based
on a participation trophy mentality than the sharing of technical
information. Several projects I am interested in have switched to it
and in each case it has not won me over. There are also subreddits for
each of the projects that I tend to prefer over the respective official
Discourse instances.

One of the biggest annoyances at least a couple of projects implement is
automatic thread locking after some period of time. Sometimes
troubleshooting an issue takes a long time and in that system one needs
to start a new thread and link back to the prior one(s) for context.
Here I can go back and add to a thread I have kept in my MailDir.

Yes, I am old, a tail-end Boomer to be exact.

- Nate

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, 28 Jul 2024 21:04:30 -0500
Hello Nate,

Post by Nate Bargmann
Discourse and Discord are two different technologies, AIUI

Discourse also does this;
Unfortunately, your browser is unsupported. Please switch to a supported
browser to view rich content, log in and reply.
Whilst it's not impossible to use their shite, err, site, with a niche
browser, they do their best to try and stop one. Of course, they're not
the only organisation that use such tactics. :-

One of the bigger problems (I find) with the social media and
community sites that want to replace a mailing list is, some sites
don't allow search engines to crawl their sites. So you don't even
know where to go to get a question answered. You have to start at the
site and search at the site.

I personally don't buy into the theres-an-app-for-that-mailing-list
mentality. I don't participate in the social networking experiments. I
refuse to be the product.

Jeff

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Post by Patrick Wiseman
I like this forum/format

Not wanting to try to convince people on a mailing list to not be on
a mailing list, so keeping this brief, but…

Post by Patrick Wiseman
IMO Discord pretty much sucks.

Discourse is not Discord. They are completely different pieces of
software made by different people with different purposes. You are
the first person to have mentioned Discord in this thread.

Thanks,
Andy

[gene heskett]

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Post by Patrick Wiseman
I like this forum/format

Not wanting to try to convince people on a mailing list to not be on
a mailing list, so keeping this brief, but…

Post by Patrick Wiseman
IMO Discord pretty much sucks.

Discourse is not Discord. They are completely different pieces of
software made by different people with different purposes. You are
the first person to have mentioned Discord in this thread.
Thanks,
Andy

I am on the Discord list for klipper and other 3d printing friends. Its
generally good. We even get answers from the sw's authors. Solid,
knowledgeable answers. It can be a breath of fresh air.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Post by gene heskett

Post by Andy Smith
Discourse is not Discord. They are completely different pieces of
software made by different people with different purposes. You are
the first person to have mentioned Discord in this thread.

I am on the Discord list for klipper and other 3d printing friends. Its
generally good. We even get answers from the sw's authors. Solid,
knowledgeable answers. It can be a breath of fresh air.

I believe that you, now, are referring to Discourse installs, but
calling them Discord, which is only increasing people's confusion.

Unless you actually *are* talking about the realtime chat service
(like IRC), which would be unusual for a software support community
but not unheard of (rsync recently switched to using Discord for
realtime chat, for example).

Thanks,
Andy

[gene heskett]

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Post by gene heskett

Post by Andy Smith
Discourse is not Discord. They are completely different pieces of
software made by different people with different purposes. You are
the first person to have mentioned Discord in this thread.

I am on the Discord list for klipper and other 3d printing friends. Its
generally good. We even get answers from the sw's authors. Solid,
knowledgeable answers. It can be a breath of fresh air.

I believe that you, now, are referring to Discourse installs, but
calling them Discord, which is only increasing people's confusion.

The icon on the opening firefox screen is self labeled Discord Andy, a
one click login to the main menu. I can click on it, post a msg, and get
a useful reply in less than 5 minutes elapsed time quite often. Not only
that, but the usual method they use for trouble shooting involves
posting the complete log from a current session of klipper, a log which
can run to 15 megabytes, no problem because of the size. I can't even
post a 10k .png here. Or a screen snap showing the problem in far more
detail than I can describe and get called a liar for trying to describe
it it text. The last calendar I have is for 2024, why is debian still
running on dialup rules from 1995?

Post by Andy Smith
Unless you actually *are* talking about the realtime chat service
(like IRC), which would be unusual for a software support community
but not unheard of (rsync recently switched to using Discord for
realtime chat, for example).
Thanks,
Andy

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

[t***@tuxteam.de]

[...] I can't even post a 10k .png here.

I don't believe you. There sure is a limit, 10k seems too small.

It'd be unpolite anyway -- forcing 6k people to download your
attachments (there are still folks on limited bandwidth, y'know).

There is paste.debian.net for that: dump your cat vid there, include
a link in the mail, done.

Complaining is always OK, but it is even more OK to do some research
before :-)

Cheers

[gene heskett]

Post by t***@tuxteam.de

[...] I can't even post a 10k .png here.

I don't believe you. There sure is a limit, 10k seems too small.

It may have been bigger, its long forgotten but it was small and it was
silently stripped.

Post by t***@tuxteam.de
It'd be unpolite anyway -- forcing 6k people to download your
attachments (there are still folks on limited bandwidth, y'know).

I'm on shentel's lowest cost account, phone and net. No tv. rooftop
antenna. 100 gig a month which I only approached for 2 months, found
the neighbor across the street was using my wifi to watch porn on his
fone. Turned off the wifi so I'm using only a gig or 5 a month.

Post by t***@tuxteam.de
There is paste.debian.net for that: dump your cat vid there, include
a link in the mail, done.

That doesn't appear to be public knowledge, thank you

Post by t***@tuxteam.de
Complaining is always OK, but it is even more OK to do some research
before :-)
Cheers

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

[Andy Smith]

Post by Andy Smith

Post by gene heskett

Post by Andy Smith
Discourse is not Discord. They are completely different pieces of
software made by different people with different purposes. You are
the first person to have mentioned Discord in this thread.

I am on the Discord list for klipper and other 3d printing friends. Its
generally good. We even get answers from the sw's authors. Solid,
knowledgeable answers. It can be a breath of fresh air.

I believe that you, now, are referring to Discourse installs, but
calling them Discord, which is only increasing people's confusion.

The icon on the opening firefox screen is self labeled Discord Andy, a one
click login to the main menu.

Okay well a quick look says that the Klipper community has both a
Discourse and Discord so I am still not sure which you refer to.

https://www.klipper3d.org/Contact.html

"There is a Klipper Community Discourse server for "forum" style
discussions on Klipper. Note that Discourse is not Discord."

"There is a Discord server dedicated to Klipper at:
https://discord.klipper3d.org. Note that Discord is not
Discourse."

It doesn't really matter.

Since the topic here was forum-style discussion, I was referring to
Discourse although for a question/answer purpose I actually
recommend Stack-like sites; AskUbuntu would be the nearest example.

Point is, as you can see by Klipper's page as well, people often
confuse Discourse and Discord but they are very different things.

Thanks,
Andy

[Walt E]

Post by Patrick Wiseman
I mostly lurk here but I like this forum/format and hope Debian sticks with
it. IMO Discord pretty much sucks. There's a r/debian subreddit which looks
quite active and I've found other subreddits helpful.
Patrick

In some companies they block web traffic to those big forums like reddit.
but mail is always possible to access.
so mailing list is really a common way for looking for tech support.

Thanks.

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

Post by Walt E
In some companies they block web traffic to those big forums like reddit.
but mail is always possible to access.

Reality check: in a thread about the best way to help end users in
2024, someone suggests that email mailing lists are the way to
continue going because companies might block the web.

I am confident that other communities will do better.
Thanks,
Andy

[Michel Verdier]

On 2024-07-28, Michael Grant wrote:

+1 to all you say.

Post by Michael Grant
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with keeping
up with a forum like that.

Once upon a time there was usenet. After a while there was a mail-to-news
gateway. It ease a lot coping with this change of medium. If the same
could be done with mailing lists <-> forums, perhaps the miracle would
come again :)

[Dan Ritter]

Post by Michel Verdier
+1 to all you say.

Post by Michael Grant
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with keeping
up with a forum like that.

Once upon a time there was usenet. After a while there was a mail-to-news
gateway. It ease a lot coping with this change of medium. If the same
could be done with mailing lists <-> forums, perhaps the miracle would
come again :)

There is, as far as I know, exactly one system that works that
way.

The good news: it's open source with a Debian-acceptable
license.

The bad news: it's not packaged. It appears to be primarily, or
solely, the effort of one person. And it only has one running
instance that I'm aware of.

https://forum.dlang.org/ is the discussion system for the D
language. The web "forum" is a front end for Usenet. The mailing
list is a gateway for Usenet. And, of course, you can access it
via a Usenet server.

It also generates RSS (Atom) feeds and runs an IRC channel.

https://github.com/CyberShadow/DFeed has the source code.


-dsr-

[d***@howorth.org.uk]

Post by Michel Verdier
+1 to all you say.

Post by Michael Grant
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with
keeping up with a forum like that.

Once upon a time there was usenet. After a while there was a
mail-to-news gateway. It ease a lot coping with this change of
medium. If the same could be done with mailing lists <-> forums,
perhaps the miracle would come again :)

There's a system called HyperKitty that bridges between a forum and a
mailing list. openSUSE use it and the particular settings lead to
something of a spam problem :(

There's also https://forums.debian.net/index.php of course, if somebody
wants a forum. :)

[Jan Krapivin]

There is Debian community in Discord

https://discord.gg/debian

https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=803217&hilit=discord#p803217

Post by d***@howorth.org.uk

Post by Michel Verdier
+1 to all you say.

Post by Michael Grant
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with
keeping up with a forum like that.

Once upon a time there was usenet. After a while there was a
mail-to-news gateway. It ease a lot coping with this change of
medium. If the same could be done with mailing lists <-> forums,
perhaps the miracle would come again :)

There's a system called HyperKitty that bridges between a forum and a
mailing list. openSUSE use it and the particular settings lead to
something of a spam problem :(
There's also https://forums.debian.net/index.php of course, if somebody
wants a forum. :)

[George at Clug]

Post by Jan Krapivin
There is Debian community in Discord
https://discord.gg/debian
https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=803217&hilit=discord#p803217

Post by d***@howorth.org.uk

Post by Michel Verdier
+1 to all you say.

Post by Michael Grant
Maybe one of you younger folks can teach me how one deals with
keeping up with a forum like that.

Once upon a time there was usenet. After a while there was a
mail-to-news gateway. It ease a lot coping with this change of
medium. If the same could be done with mailing lists <-> forums,
perhaps the miracle would come again :)

There's a system called HyperKitty that bridges between a forum and a
mailing list. openSUSE use it and the particular settings lead to
something of a spam problem :(
There's also https://forums.debian.net/index.php of course, if somebody
wants a forum. :)

Do you know of any debian groups who meet up using Video Conferencing?

And are there any debian groups who physically get together to talk about Debian?

George

[t***@tuxteam.de]

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join it...

Sadly, the Debian project is not willing to move with the times and
bless a modern web support community such as Discourse (a Stack
Overflow or AskUbuntu-like interface, for those who are unaware).

There it is, the "modern times" meme and the "mail is old" meme.

I have seen lots of it. I have used Discourse (one of the communities
I take part in tried to move from a mailing list to Discourse: the
"forum" crawls on, as a half-zombie and a write-only medium, the real
action, is, five years on, still on the ML). Personally, I do hate
Discourse, with passion. As most of those fora.

I won't go into details, because this is bound to be one of those
monster threads: let's agree on "it is a matter of taste".

Nothing to do with "modern".

Cheers

[Joe]

On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 06:24:35 +0200

Post by t***@tuxteam.de

Post by Andy Smith
Hi,

Which web forum has the commuity moved to then? I should like to join it...

Sadly, the Debian project is not willing to move with the times and
bless a modern web support community such as Discourse (a Stack
Overflow or AskUbuntu-like interface, for those who are unaware).

There it is, the "modern times" meme and the "mail is old" meme.
I have seen lots of it. I have used Discourse (one of the communities
I take part in tried to move from a mailing list to Discourse: the
"forum" crawls on, as a half-zombie and a write-only medium, the real
action, is, five years on, still on the ML). Personally, I do hate
Discourse, with passion. As most of those fora.
I won't go into details, because this is bound to be one of those
monster threads: let's agree on "it is a matter of taste".
Nothing to do with "modern".

A lot of people confuse the words 'modern' and 'new' with the word
'better'.

Old people are largely more 'set in their ways' because they have seen
a great many new ways tried and found wanting.

[David Wright]

Post by MailGuard01
I am trying to complete the network configuration on Debian 12 using the default
installed `ifupdown` package. I have noticed some confusing behavior with
`ifupdown` while following the manual pages.
Specifically, when I place `iface eno1 inet6 auto` with `privext 2` after `iface
inet eno1 dhcp` as instructed by the manual, the behavior becomes unpredictable.
Typically, the `privext` setting does not work as expected and has no effect
when I initially boot into Debian 12 every time, even though the value of
`/proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/eno1/use_tempaddr` is correctly set to 2. No temporary
IPv6 address is assigned to the interface.
However, if I restart the networking service using `systemctl restart
networking`, everything starts working correctly, and the temporary IPv6 address
is assigned and displayed. Strangely, after multiple reboot of my Debian 12 PC,
the temporary address occasionally appears without manually restarting the
networking service. The behavior seems unstable and inconsistent.
When I accidentally placed `iface eno1 inet6 auto` with `privext 2` before
`iface inet eno1 dhcp`, everything worked without any problem. All settings
correctly applied, and there was no need to manually restart the networking
service.
I have searched online but found nothing relevant, as if this is an isolated
case. The manual also does not mention this behavior. I can reproduce this
consistently from Debian 11 to Debian testing/unstable.
Is this behavior expected / considered a feature? Or is it an isolated case?
Should I report this as a bug, and if so, where should I do that?

There is a bug report #960809, which seems related, and
might be worth adding your experience to, if you think so.

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=960809

Post by MailGuard01
Additionally, it would be helpful to mention this behavior in the manual pages
if it's expected, perhaps in a known limitations section. It took me days to
solve this issue, and I was stumble upon the solution by sheer luck.

I did wonder whether any of the randomness wrt reboots might be
time-related, as skim reading the RFC, it seems to allow for storing
a history of addresses used, and periodic generation of new ones
rather than a fresh one every reboot.

Cheers,
David.

[MailGuard01]

Post by David Wright
There is a bug report #960809, which seems related, and
might be worth adding your experience to, if you think so.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=960809

Thank you for letting me know about this. I also noticed this issue
earlier, but it seems to have been resolved, or at least I can not
reproduce it. Not, all the main IPv6 address of each subnet are
correctly mark as `mngtmpaddr`.

Is it still reasonable to add my experience to existing bug report,
or should I submit a new one instead?
But I still worried this is an isolated case. Will try to reproduce
it on another environment once I got time.

Post by David Wright
I did wonder whether any of the randomness wrt reboots might be
time-related, as skim reading the RFC, it seems to allow for storing
a history of addresses used, and periodic generation of new ones
rather than a fresh one every reboot.

I didn't pay much attention to this since it only worked as expected
maybe once or twice out of dozens of attempts.

Based on my experience, the `addr_gen_mode` sysctl parameter might
be responsible for this. It can stabilize the auto-configured IPv6,
but it only affect the management IPv6; the temporary one changes
with every reboot.

Strangely, I do have a few Debian server that work regardless of the
configuration order, but freshly installed systems never do.

[Greg Wooledge]

Post by MailGuard01
Is it still reasonable to add my experience to existing bug report,
or should I submit a new one instead?

Adding to an existing bug report is a good thing, especially if you can
bring new insights, new examples, etc.